World Class

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Dier Hard said:
World Class is subjective as people will always have their own view of what it means as well as having a differing view of how good they think a player is.

In general I reckon a world class player will be roughly one of the top five players in their respective position throughout world football (or Europe seeing as that’s where 99% of the worlds’ best play). If you find it tough mentioning more than three or four better players than a particular individual then I think they should be held in high regard and labelled world class.
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That's a fair shout, mate <applause>

World class status should be held for the elite players only. Although we'll also have periods where even top players in certain positions don't deserve that status. I agree Luke Shaw is one of the best left backs about at the moment but you couldn't keep a straight face describing him as world class. Same as the likes of Declan Rice.
 
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Dier Hard said:
World Class is subjective as people will always have their own view of what it means as well as having a differing view of how good they think a player is.

In general I reckon a world class player will be roughly one of the top five players in their respective position throughout world football (or Europe seeing as that’s where 99% of the worlds’ best play). If you find it tough mentioning more than three or four better players than a particular individual then I think they should be held in high regard and labelled world class.
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To cut a long story short, you mean Harry Kane init.
 
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Saff said:
That's a fair shout, mate <applause>

World class status should be held for the elite players only. Although we'll also have periods where even top players in certain positions don't deserve that status. I agree Luke Shaw is one of the best left backs about at the moment but you couldn't keep a straight face describing him as world class. Same as the likes of Declan Rice.
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Yeah agree, I think if Shaw especially has another season or two like last then it’ll be impossible to deny him that world class label. After one truly great season there’ll be doubters saying it was a one-off but I think with multiple top seasons behind a player it can’t be debated, the only ones who’d disagree would likely be rival fans.
 
Spurlock said:
To cut a long story short, you mean Harry Kane init.
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Haha yeah I do personally think Kane is world class as the only striker I feel is better right now is Lewandowski. Unless of course we’re counting Ronaldo as a ST these days and if so he too is also better, though Ronaldo and Messi don’t really count in these debates, they ain’t ****ing human, lol.
 
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Tel said:
By that definition Kane is world class 100%

There’s only Lewandowski that’s a better number 9. That’s why Kane doesn’t get in a world XI for me.
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Yeah completely agree with that, Lewandowski is a ****ing monster.
 
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Can't wait to see what club Kane goes to, see if some still see him as World Class. <laugh>

HiaG needs to come back!
 
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Spurlock said:
Is there a world class player or 2 in the England squad?

interested to know/understand some loose translations of the term from yous people
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None. Certainly not based on 4 games in a tournament, you have to be on Maradona or Zidane levels to even be considered for that ****.

So taking club and country performances into account there's none, not even close. BUT having said that, the squad we have is the best that I can remember. There's real depth in quality and if we can do well in this tournament and players continue to progress at club level and then into the WC next year, I'm sure we may have a couple.

Just to put this in perspective, the last World Class player England had, which everyone can pretty much agree on as world class by ANY measurable criteria anyone wants to throw down, would be Ashley Cole. He's a prize **** of a bloke but as a player he was exceptional. Nobody in that current England squad comes close to that.
 
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Treble said:
None. Certainly not based on 4 games in a tournament, you have to be on Maradona or Zidane levels to even be considered for that ****.

So taking club and country performances into account there's none, not even close. BUT having said that, the squad we have is the best that I can remember. There's real depth in quality and if we can do well in this tournament and players continue to progress at club level and then into the WC next year, I'm sure we may have a couple.

Just to put this in perspective, the last World Class player England had, which everyone can pretty much agree on as world class by ANY measurable criteria anyone wants to throw down, would be Ashley Cole. He's a prize **** of a bloke but as a player he was exceptional. Nobody in that current England squad comes close to that.
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I agree about Ashley Cole. First class prick, world class footballer.

I totally disagree with the squad being the best in your/our lifetime. On paper, I'd have to say it's the weakest squad that I've seen. The players individually don't even come close to having the quality of Beckham, Lampard, Gerrard, Rio etc. This is what makes this team the most competitive and most likely to win a trophy since I've been watching internationals. It's more of a collective effort now with everybody knowing their job and able to chip in. This is where all credit goes to Southgate, imo, he's done a phenomenal job and is vastly underrated for doing so. All that our managers done before him was to play it safe by picking big name players at the big name clubs. Them players were thrown together and we just hoped for the best. Now, we have a style of play, an identity and we know what to expect.
 
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Saff said:
I agree about Ashley Cole. First class prick, world class footballer.

I totally disagree with the squad being the best in your/our lifetime. On paper, I'd have to say it's the weakest squad that I've seen. The players individually don't even come close to having the quality of Beckham, Lampard, Gerrard, Rio etc. This is what makes this team the most competitive and most likely to win a trophy since I've been watching internationals. It's more of a collective effort now with everybody knowing their job and able to chip in. This is where all credit goes to Southgate, imo, he's done a phenomenal job and is vastly underrated for doing so. All that our managers done before him was to play it safe by picking big name players at the big name clubs. Them players were thrown together and we just hoped for the best. Now, we have a style of play, an identity and we know what to expect.
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I agree with that but I meant the whole squad. There's more quality in that 26 man squad than in previous 23 (or whatever it was). We had a great starting 11 with the players you mentioned but then after that it was pretty average. I'd rather have this squad than that one tbh.

Southgate's done well so far and I agree completely about previous managers and also that those players really never played as a team. The only thing I'd say is that, that England side came up against far better opposition and quality of players than this side has so far. That Brazil side of 2002 or Germany of 2010 or even Portugal of 2004 would've been far tougher tests for Southgate than what we've seen so far under his reign. He's doing alright though, I still think he can get more out of this group of players.
 
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Treble said:
None. Certainly not based on 4 games in a tournament, you have to be on Maradona or Zidane levels to even be considered for that ****.

So taking club and country performances into account there's none, not even close. BUT having said that, the squad we have is the best that I can remember. There's real depth in quality and if we can do well in this tournament and players continue to progress at club level and then into the WC next year, I'm sure we may have a couple.

Just to put this in perspective, the last World Class player England had, which everyone can pretty much agree on as world class by ANY measurable criteria anyone wants to throw down, would be Ashley Cole. He's a prize **** of a bloke but as a player he was exceptional. Nobody in that current England squad comes close to that.
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I didnt mean just the tournament games…that’s just 4 games like
 
Spurlock said:
I didnt mean just the tournament games…that’s just 4 games like
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No I know, Sterling was mentioned somewhere on this thread and he's never world class in the league so thought maybe some were basing it on the tournament.

Edit: Though he's not been world class in the tournament either.
 
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Maguire
Foden
Sterling
Kane

World class.
That’s why it’s coming home.

Bye then.
 
Big Ern said:
If Rice isn't world-class, why do the fans of Man U, Man City & Chelsea want him? I agree that he hasn't impressed much for England, as someone who watches him week in week out it's obvious he's been told to sit back more and protect the defence, and hasn't been given rein to drive forwards like he does at West Ham. Then again, we've conceded 0 goals and have pretty much controlled each game from the centre of the park, so he can't be that bad. Also, teams haven't really attacked us, I don't think you'll see the best out of Rice until the final and we play teams that want to control the ball like Belgium, Italy or Spain.
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Rice isn't a bad player. He's more than decent. We are talking about world class players, though. Kalvin Phillips has outshone him in this tournament so he hasn't even been our best centre midfielder out of the two that we are playing.
 
Honestly not bothered. What i would say without hesitation is that most of the players are playing better for England than they do for their clubs and, under Southgate, always have. Players like Pickford and Maguire I look at lining up against Newcastle and think "we can get at them", I see them in an England shirt and they are different players entirely. In an England shirt I would genuinely consider picking Maguire in my world XI. Considering Pogba I'm now beginning to think there may be someone wrong with the Man Utd shirts...

For most of my life I've become accustomed to players failing to replicate club form when they turned out for England, that seems to have changed and that's all I ever wanted.
 
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Tel said:
I’ve always said ‘World’ class means you’d get in a world XI and I think at this point in time, I could make a case for Luke Shaw.

On form I’d have to drop Ramos & Van Dijk but they’d usually be in.

Oblak
Cancelo
Diaz
Varane/Koulibaly
Shaw/Davies
De Bruyne
Kante
Kimmich/Pogba based on his games for France
Ronaldo
Messi
Lewandowski
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Who is davies?

My 11

Neuer
Kimmich
Ramos
VVD
Alaba/Robertson
KDB
Kante
Modric
Ronaldo
Lewandowski
Messi
 
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