Off Topic The SIR Kenny Dalglish Public House

[Zanjinho]

Yeah but hes a fake tan wearing google raised trailer trash.

Hes not young enough to have ever had a set of books called an encyclopedia.

Plus his chavvy scum parents probably never gave him any books.

That could apply to a lot of managers! I've never had an encyclopedia and I'm forty!

 

[saintanton]

Grealish has an encyclopaedic knowledge of grass from extreme close-up.

 

[lfcpower]

Grealish has an encyclopaedic knowledge of grass from extreme close-up.

Wouldn't even be confident of that. He has got an encyclopaedic knowledge of his own saliva from watching it string out of his gormless ****ing mouth then dribbling down his chin onto the grass, or whatever surface happens to be below.

 

[johnsonsbaby]

First ever transgender athlete picked for Olympics. Laurel Hubbard, a NZ weightlifter aged 43, competed as a man until 2013. Is it fair to women in the sport to allow this?

 

[THE FOOL]

First ever transgender athlete picked for Olympics. Laurel Hubbard, a NZ weightlifter aged 43, competed as a man until 2013. Is it fair to women in the sport to allow this?

All athletes top class athletes have natural attributes that give them a advantage over others.

Regardless of how hard I train, I'd never be as quick as Usain bolt. If she has fully transitioned I see no issue with her competing as a female. If they want to single out transgender athletes then all the shouting diversity and inclusion about race, religion and all the other buggery is for noubt.

Give a bloke a choice between his cock and a gold medal and I reckon 99% arnt that arsed about standing on the podium.

 

[johnsonsbaby]

All athletes top class athletes have natural attributes that give them a advantage over others.

Regardless of how hard I train, I'd never be as quick as Usain bolt. If she has fully transitioned I see no issue with her competing as a female. If they want to single out transgender athletes then all the shouting diversity and inclusion about race, religion and all the other buggery is for noubt.

Give a bloke a choice between his cock and a gold medal and I reckon 99% arnt that arsed about standing on the podium.

The women weightlifters competing against him should have their voices heard first imo because they are the ones who are being disadvantaged. If he was a man until he was 36 years old, there's an obvious advantage in terms of muscle mass and bone density etc. The strongest woman in the world would rank very low in the men's division.

I think there's a huge difference between welcoming all people no matter what race, religion, etc. like you suggest and keeping sport fair and competitive. This should be a sports issue and not a societal issue.

 

[moreinjuredthanowen]

Theres a.massive issue here.

First of all be all the diverse and inclusive as you want but genetics are that they are.

A male adult have undergone puberty with massive building of one and muscle and has testosterone boost irrespective of what laster hormone treatments.

That's not to say a woman cant beat an average man and who k was what this athlete is actually able to do.

They could be crap but in the end I think we all know that if we wanted to badly enough we could dominate womens sports with trans men fairly easily.

It is a sports issue but it's not about "fair play" it's about the complex competitive nature of pro and semi pro athletics etc. People will cheat to get ahead if they think they can ride the fame to a fortune.

Given the Russians attitude to LGBTQ at least we can say these regimes currently wouldn't use it as another way to cheat but on the other hand I could see a few yanks try it to gain fame. Be the next Caitlyn Jenner.

 

[THE FOOL]

The women weightlifters competing against him should have their voices heard first imo because they are the ones who are being disadvantaged. If he was a man until he was 36 years old, there's an obvious advantage in terms of muscle mass and bone density etc. The strongest woman in the world would rank very low in the men's division.

I think there's a huge difference between welcoming all people no matter what race, religion, etc. like you suggest and keeping sport fair and competitive. This should be a sports issue and not a societal issue.

So their "voices" are more important? Because she's transgender? Because it's not fair? Because she has a natural advantage?

But for as long as I can remember all the quickest runners have been black, maybe the other races should have their voices heard, as this is patently unfair, they obviously have a natural advantage.

You can have it one way or the other, not pick and choose what you fancy.

 

[johnsonsbaby]

So their "voices" are more important? Because she's transgender? Because it's not fair? Because she has a natural advantage?

But for as long as I can remember all the quickest runners have been black, maybe the other races should have their voices heard, as this is patently unfair, they obviously have a natural advantage.

You can have it one way or the other, not pick and choose what you fancy.

I take your point about black runners but it's not comparable. A person living as a man for 35 years now taking part in the women's category of a sport has a massive advantage, literally. The new rules on testosterone levels even allow for a trans woman to have 5 times the level of testosterone of born females. That could actually be considered as doping.

I wish Laurel good luck in life, just wish that there was a trans category in sport and then everyone would be happy.

 

[BobbyD]

So their "voices" are more important? Because she's transgender? Because it's not fair? Because she has a natural advantage?

But for as long as I can remember all the quickest runners have been black, maybe the other races should have their voices heard, as this is patently unfair, they obviously have a natural advantage.

You can have it one way or the other, not pick and choose what you fancy.

to be fair, it's mainly because we know men are physiologically stronger than women on average, a big part of this is testosterone (which also differs between race).

However, the line has been divided men and female, which is why we never talk about race. Of the number ways of doping, i'm pretty sure one way is to increase your testosterone levels and even if you're testosterone levels are normal come race time, if you are caught doping beforehand, you are banned.

This transgender lady has had 30 odd years of increased testosterone, just because she's now at the "legal" limit for female, doesn't mean she hasn't gained an advantage before hand. This is where people are believing this is unfair on cisgender woman, especially when it comes to more physical sports like weightlifting and rugby

 

[moreinjuredthanowen]

There is absolutely zero point in comparing race to gender changing. Zero.

Imo the fairest solution here is to do what half the sport playing LGBTQ community seem to want to go do and let them have their own Olympics

I've lost count of the amount of new teams forms where LGBTQ say clubs dont make them welcome enough and they form their own. (No such thing as making any effort on their part it has to be 100% effort on the clubs side or they are homophobic etc etc)

Let's have the trans Olympics where they can have all the gender categories they want. Problem solved. They can host it is San Francisco and fly rainbow flags and accuse the world of not being welcoming enough and the olympics of being whatever.

Problem solved all round.

 

[Zanjinho]

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[THE FOOL]

I didnt realise there was so many of you on here that where just ever so slightly bigoted.

Take care.

 

[johnsonsbaby]

I didnt realise there was so many of you on here that where just ever so slightly bigoted.

Take care.

Mate, it's not fair to call anyone who disagrees with you a bigot. It's a different point of view based on biological differences between the sexes. That's all.

 

[moreinjuredthanowen]

I think its a case of no really understanding and trying to but if you like to throw names fair enough. I suppose I can only try to understand why?



My view here is that when a person stands outside the problem looking in the are able to see both sides but only from their perspective and we apply our perspectives as its all we have.

Thus I can see why women who've tried to compete for years would be upset but on the other side i can say I struggle to understand the trans community but try to. Its not precisely easy. One person here wants to after competing for many year was one gender, and has i assume completed a transgender journey, now wants to compete as another gender. As much as it would be nice to have a world where the first half of a person's life was deleted or whatever is desired it just isn't that easy and many times it is this that makes it hard to understand. For example taking names and ignoring parents and all their childhood memories and all of that so its tough. this perosn wants to complete at the highest level of this sport having had many years or a different biological process that could give a large advantage

In many ways bending over backwards to resolve every single case only drives more resistance than benefits.

For example I can say I was on the side of the LGBTQ community when bathrooms were discussed in the US and was against our office sticking a sign on the disabled toilets saying gender neutral etc as it was actually segregating people. However I am clearly a bigot so my view doesn't count I personally can see women's views of "fear" as they are afraid of men for a sad but valid reason but i can also see that a person identifying as a women shouldn't be treated as a pervert for using the toilet.

 

[Solid Air]

I think its a case of no really understanding and trying to but if you like to throw names fair enough. I suppose I can only try to understand why?



My view here is that when a person stands outside the problem looking in the are able to see both sides but only from their perspective and we apply our perspectives as its all we have.

Thus I can see why women who've tried to compete for years would be upset but on the other side i can say I struggle to understand the trans community but try to. Its not precisely easy. One person here wants to after competing for many year was one gender, and has i assume completed a transgender journey, now wants to compete as another gender. As much as it would be nice to have a world where the first half of a person's life was deleted or whatever is desired it just isn't that easy and many times it is this that makes it hard to understand. For example taking names and ignoring parents and all their childhood memories and all of that so its tough. this perosn wants to complete at the highest level of this sport having had many years or a different biological process that could give a large advantage

In many ways bending over backwards to resolve every single case only drives more resistance than benefits.

For example I can say I was on the side of the LGBTQ community when bathrooms were discussed in the US and was against our office sticking a sign on the disabled toilets saying gender neutral etc as it was actually segregating people. However I am clearly a bigot so my view doesn't count I personally can see women's views of "fear" as they are afraid of men for a sad but valid reason but i can also see that a person identifying as a women shouldn't be treated as a pervert for using the toilet.

sticking gender neutral on the door of a disabled toilet would be superfluous as all disabled toilets are gender neutral .

 

[moreinjuredthanowen]

sticking gender neutral on the door of a disabled toilet would be superfluous as all disabled toilets are gender neutral .

indeed, I thought it a very convenient and slightly cynical way to go about promoting inclusion. Now I don't want to be glib but the guy who did it was doing it to get LinkedIn likes and has a big new job so he ticked the box as a champion of the cause and moved on. No real issue there as that's the world we live in.

He also had done more than the incumbent "champion" as we didn't have covid restrictions. He did organise a few visits and lectures on terms and stories and such like which were quite good and more useful than a sign nobody cares about, but it was still made a big deal and he got an internal promotion out of it for doing it and then move to a fashion company where he thinks he's on the road to VP or something (fat chance )

The way I see it is that big companies use it as a marketing tool, its been the marketing tool for a few years as its in general quite easy, they are only starting with properly going into the race stuff where before it was absolutely no place here but don't talk about it to now hosting a how do you feel thing on the anniversary of goerge flloyd murder.

the one that gets zero traction is the inclusion on disability. they will just about stretch to mental wellbeing and depression but its not on to discuss disability and such.

Companies do whats required by law but in reality if you had a job and got an injury ok but if you have a disability you are filtered out and never hired.

the other one is ageism. you top out and hit a ceiling and are then seen as "too old" and have your career limited. thats also not one to touch.


The point of all of this is a person can only try to understand from their own limited perception of these massively different topics and balance what they see from that point of view and try to be open to explanation. Its unfair to expect peoepl to be able to be on the same page on everything.

 

[johnsonsbaby]

I had no intention of discussing transgender issues in general. It's a hugely complex and divisive subject.

I wondered what points of view this Olympics story would throw up in terms of fairness and competitiveness in sport. There are reasons for having categories within sport. If you change the category in any way, you could influence the outcome eg having a 15 year old compete in u13 event or an able bodied person compete in the Paralympics (which has been done in the past). Having a man compete against a woman isn't fair. It's the only area I can think of (sport, and especially a sport requiring such strength) were you need to get the rules right. It's why I said early on that the women in this event should have the biggest say in how it moves forward. If they are happy competing with trans women then it ceases to be an issue.

I agree with mito, we're all trying to understand and learn as we go.

There are a lot of people who think they are doing good by defending a group of people who don't actually need them to defend them at all. All trans people don't think and act the same; all black people don't think and act the same; all gay people don't think and act the same. When you think you are speaking on their behalf, chances are you're not. I'm not talking about out and out racist or homophobic etc abuse here which needs shutting down, I'm talking about issues like the one we're discussing. There is no collective trans way of looking at it. I read a piece yesterday from a trans woman who said that while as a man he was a very good athlete and had achieved a lot in his sport, after his transition he stopped competing because he was far too strong to compete against women and he felt it was wrong to do so.

We shouldn't be lumping people into groups.and assigning group traits. We are individuals. We may identify similarly but we have no collective thoughts or actions or way of being. Are all white people the same? Are all straight people the same? No. Neither are all trans people the same. So it's best not to react as if they are.

 

[Zanjinho]

Yeah, I'm going to opt not to join in with this one....

 

[johnsonsbaby]

Yeah, I'm going to opt not to join in with this one....

You already did.