Thomas Frank & Johan Lange (& Fabio Paratici) Watch

["Thanks for that Brian"]

So Levy ****ed up Poch's replacement, which is his speciality you say, yet someone must have appointed Poch and Redknapp for example, so were they **** ups too? Not a contradiction again?

Poch was a rushed replacement for Louis van Gaal, who Levy had lined up for a presser the next day, when he pulled a Willian and ****ed off elsewhere.

In the same way that BMJ was appointed as underling to the mighty....Jacques Santini

In 20 years and numerous managerial choices, the only one he's got right, other than by accident, is Harry Redknapp....and he ****ed him off to appoint AVB

If you're happy with that, fair ****s to you. We can do much better,

 

[PowerSpurs]

I've just found out that prior to players telling Levy that Poch had to go, Poch told a number of them they were gone, straight after the CL final. What a ****ing mess and Levy let it drag on for months.

Andros Townsend said it on the radio this morning.

We are such a ****ing basket case...we're going to do it all over again...

I thought the concensus on here was that we needed big changes that close season to make up for the previous windows. So now we are criticising Poch for getting on to it early?

 

["Thanks for that Brian"]

So now we are criticising Poch for getting on to it early?

Yes, I think that's a pretty fair way of looking at it...and by way of response, I'll pose you a couple of questions

Would you tell a staff member that you're getting rid of them in advance of knowing whether its possible to do so?

What issues might that result in when they subsequently don't leave?

 

[PowerSpurs]

Poch was a rushed replacement for Louis van Gaal, who Levy had lined up for a presser the next day, when he pulled a Willian and ****ed off elsewhere.

In the same way that BMJ was appointed as underling to the mighty....Jacques Santini

In 20 years and numerous managerial choices, the only one he's got right, other than by accident, is Harry Redknapp....and he ****ed him off to appoint AVB

If you're happy with that, fair ****s to you. We can do much better,

I don't know whether you've noticed but looking at the top clubs in England I can get to seven managers over the last 60 years who have made a lasting difference (plus Brian Clough and Jose Mourinho who gave fleeting major success to a couple of clubs). Bill Nicholson, Matt Busby, Bill Shankly, Don Revie, Bob Paisley, Alex Ferguson, Arsene Wenger. Each club did quite badly after they left too, except Liverpool. There must be another 80 managers whose impact has been barely noticeable.
I can think of almost no-one who has been a total disaster though. If it is a ten to one chance of appointing a really good manager then changing them often until you identify the great one is a decent strategy.

 

[PowerSpurs]

Yes, I think that's a pretty fair way of looking at it...and by way of response, I'll pose you a couple of questions

Would you tell a staff member that you're getting rid of them in advance of knowing whether its possible to do so?

What issues might that result in when they subsequently don't leave?

I thought it was the normal process in football clubs to transfer list players you don't want. It's not exactly a normal business is it.

 

["Thanks for that Brian"]

I thought it was the normal process in football clubs to transfer list players you don't want. It's not exactly a normal business is it.

Probably a good idea to first get sign off from the chairman, who actually has sign off on such matters?

 

["Thanks for that Brian"]

I don't know whether you've noticed but looking at the top clubs in England I can get to seven managers over the last 60 years who have made a lasting difference (plus Brian Clough and Jose Mourinho who gave fleeting major success to a couple of clubs). Bill Nicholson, Matt Busby, Bill Shankly, Don Revie, Bob Paisley, Alex Ferguson, Arsene Wenger. Each club did quite badly after they left too, except Liverpool. There must be another 80 managers whose impact has been barely noticeable.
I can think of almost no-one who has been a total disaster though. If it is a ten to one chance of appointing a really good manager then changing them often until you identify the great one is a decent strategy.

Levy's first choices have been lamentable. He's made 2 good choices by accident and 1 properly good appointment.

Hoddle was an ineffective egotist.

Santini was absolutely ****ing dreadful.

Ramos was bloody useless, other than in the odd big game.

AVB was a nonsense appointment. We sacked a decent manager to appoint a bloke, who Chelsea rightly threw out after half a season.

Mourinho? Absolutely ****ing nuts.

Hoddle apart, not one of them lasted 2 seasons. You really are easily pleased.

 

[remembercolinlee]

So Levy ****ed up Poch's replacement, which is his speciality you say, yet someone must have appointed Poch and Redknapp for example, so were they **** ups too? Not a contradiction again?

The full list is...
Hoddle (2 years 3 months)
Pleat (9 month care taker)
Santini (3 months)
Jol (3 years)
Ramos (1year)
Redknapp (just over 3 and a half years)
AVB (18 months)
Sherwood (6 months)
Pochettino (5 and a half years)
JM (18 months)
Mason (7 game caretaker...including a cup final).

Hoddle had a terrible his of man management and was a poor appointment. Many of us thought so at the time. He at best kept us static as a team.

Sacking Hoddle in early September and then keeping Pleat for the rest was a car crash that everyone saw coming. This set us back wards from an already low position.

Santini lasted 2 months into the season.
Personally knew nothing about him so my view on him is purely hindsight.

Jol was a great appointment but
3 years later Levy treated him appallingly.
Massively improved us.

Ramos took us backwards. Lasted a year.

Redknapp was excellent and tbh I understand why he was sacked.

AVB was an avoidable car crash as was Sherwood.

Pochettino was the best of the bunch and JM was a criminal appointment and Mason was simply stupid. We were in a cup final and still had a very slim chance of a top 4 but a decent chance of a top 6 finish if we had not wasted January and February and March and early April with JM.

3 good managers in out of 11 (Jol, Redknapp and Pochettino) but 5 moronic decisions that were NEVER going to work (Hoddle, Pleat, AVB, Sherwood and Mason). That seems pretty awful to me.

 

[yossarian]

Levy's first choices have been lamentable. He's made 2 good choices by accident and 1 properly good appointment.

Hoddle was an ineffective egotist.

Santini was absolutely ****ing dreadful.

Ramos was bloody useless, other than in the odd big game.

AVB was a nonsense appointment. We sacked a decent manager to appoint a bloke, who Chelsea rightly threw out after half a season.

Mourinho? Absolutely ****ing nuts.

Hoddle apart, not one of them lasted 2 seasons. You really are easily pleased.

As the old saying goes "Even a stopped clock is right twice a day"

 

[vimhawk]

The full list is...
Hoddle (2 years 3 months)
Pleat (9 month care taker)
Santini (3 months)
Jol (3 years)
Ramos (1year)
Redknapp (just over 3 and a half years)
AVB (18 months)
Sherwood (6 months)
Pochettino (5 and a half years)
JM (18 months)
Mason (7 game caretaker...including a cup final).

Hoddle had a terrible his of man management and was a poor appointment. Many of us thought so at the time. He at best kept us static as a team.

Sacking Hoddle in early September and then keeping Pleat for the rest was a car crash that everyone saw coming. This set us back wards from an already low position.

Santini lasted 2 months into the season.
Personally knew nothing about him so my view on him is purely hindsight.

Jol was a great appointment but
3 years later Levy treated him appallingly.
Massively improved us.

Ramos took us backwards. Lasted a year.

Redknapp was excellent and tbh I understand why he was sacked.

AVB was an avoidable car crash as was Sherwood.

Pochettino was the best of the bunch and JM was a criminal appointment and Mason was simply stupid. We were in a cup final and still had a very slim chance of a top 4 but a decent chance of a top 6 finish if we had not wasted January and February and March and early April with JM.

3 good managers in out of 11 (Jol, Redknapp and Pochettino) but 5 moronic decisions that were NEVER going to work (Hoddle, Pleat, AVB, Sherwood and Mason). That seems pretty awful to me.

Or you could add up the time under the leadership of the three "good managers" and compare it to the time under "moronic decisions" and find that we've been managed by good managers for far longer than bad ones. Since Levy also has the ability to get rid of them, but kept the good ones for longer, then surely it's at least as valid a way of looking at the situation as yours. But go ahead and only look at "facts" which confirm the opinion you already have if you want.

 

[Dier Hard]

Well, looks like it’s between Poch and Conte.

Loads of reports from yesterday evening and this morning on both, so depending on who you believe I think it’ll be one of those now, having thought for so long it will have been one of ten Hag, Rodgers or Potter!

Conte’s appointment would be an interesting one, I think he’s an absolutely brilliant manager (crazy bastard too) but he’ll definitely want money and a significant amount of it in order to rebuild this team in his image.

 

[Spurf]

I can't believe that people believe that football decisions are all anything but pot luck. The whole business of football is about opinions and very little about scientific judgments. What managerial appointment in the PL is NOT hit and hope? OK you might try and reduce the odds by looking at track records and that might lead you to employ Mourinho, or Santini. You might think that Chelsea seem to be very successful and change managers quite a lot so picking up some of their cast offs might be a good idea. Then there are options like Martin Jol or Potter of Brighton or some obscure bloke called Poch e what at Southampton. Arsenal got it right with Wenger but they have arguably got it wrong since he went. United were right with Fergusson but repeating the trick is proving difficult.
It's just the same with players. We can all be clever in hindsight but whether player X playing at Y will work as well playing at Spurs will always be a shot in the dark. Of course having almost unlimited funds helps a bit but how many players do Chelsea and City have on their books who never make it into the first on a regular basis?
Blaming Levy for poor decisions in football is a joke because everyone makes poor decisions EVERYONE!. In the pro game all you can hope for is that your owner is interested in the football and club traditions and not just there for making a fast buck.

 

[humanbeingincroydon]

Are you eating fermented onions again?

They were Poch picks, especially Nkoudou and Janssen. Nkoudou wasn't fancied by anyone else at the club. Mitchell scouted Batshuayi and the failure to sign him caused his departure. Poch spotted Nkoudou on the Batshuayi videos and was the sole driver for his signing,

Janssen was an alternative to Batshuayi that Poch personally picked. He was filmed at an International between England and Holland a week or two before the signing.

I forget the story about N'Jie but there was a heavy Poch involvement...and there's still no plan to replace Mourinho

Wow, so many things factually incorrect with that statement

First of all, conveniently forgetting the small fact that Marseille were taking the piss throughout negotiations for Batshuayi as they were waiting for a bigger offer to come in due to their issues with Ligue 1's FFP rules

Secondly, Ousmane Dembele was fancied by those at the club and Mitchell ****ed that one up, and then ended up signing half the player for twice the price - with Marseille taking the piss for the second time that transfer window, which more than any other reason is why we should have pulled the plug on that deal PDQ

Third, Poch was at a friendly between Holland and Ireland, not England

Fourth, how convenient that you forget about N'Jie. The fact that in back-to-back summers we were in for pacy left wingers from Ligue 1 makes it more obvious this was a Mitchell move than anything else, because when we move for players that specific it's clearly more to do with the scouts than any one person's personal preference

Lastly, remind me who said that sacking the ubermensch without a replacement lined up would be the worst thing we could do - and, more importantly, remind me who insisted on bickering otherwise?

 

[humanbeingincroydon]

Well, looks like it’s between Poch and Conte.

Loads of reports from yesterday evening and this morning on both, so depending on who you believe I think it’ll be one of those now, having thought for so long it will have been one of ten Hag, Rodgers or Potter!

Conte’s appointment would be an interesting one, I think he’s an absolutely brilliant manager (crazy bastard too) but he’ll definitely want money and a significant amount of it in order to rebuild this team in his image.

The salary being bandied about for Conte is reportedly £15m+ a season

Anyone want to double check what ten Hag is asking for?

 

[Billy The Spur]

Poch was in the crowd at Wembley to watch Janssen score a penalty in a 2-1 Holland win, Spurs signed Janssen a few months later.

 

[humanbeingincroydon]

Poch was in the crowd at Wembley to watch Janssen score a penalty in a 2-1 Holland win, Spurs signed Janssen a few months later.

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[KingHotspur]

Well, looks like it’s between Poch and Conte.

Loads of reports from yesterday evening and this morning on both, so depending on who you believe I think it’ll be one of those now, having thought for so long it will have been one of ten Hag, Rodgers or Potter!

Conte’s appointment would be an interesting one, I think he’s an absolutely brilliant manager (crazy bastard too) but he’ll definitely want money and a significant amount of it in order to rebuild this team in his image.

Conte intrigues me. I can’t see him becoming manager unless he is promised some big money to overhaul the squad, if he didn’t get it then he’s the type to walk straight away so from that perspective it would be interesting to see as if Levy appointed him and them didn’t back him then we’d all know when Conte walks so soon.

I really don’t want Poch back at this moment. I’d definitely pick Ten Hag or Potter over him.

 

[gooner4ever]

So what are your thoughts on Poch coming back - will it be enough to keep Kane or is it to pacify the fans if Kane goes

 

[SpursDisciple]

In an ideal world, Poch would stay at PSG for a year and then come back. But life isn't convenient like that.

 

[Tilly'sowner]

I can't believe that people believe that football decisions are all anything but pot luck. The whole business of football is about opinions and very little about scientific judgments. What managerial appointment in the PL is NOT hit and hope? OK you might try and reduce the odds by looking at track records and that might lead you to employ Mourinho, or Santini. You might think that Chelsea seem to be very successful and change managers quite a lot so picking up some of their cast offs might be a good idea. Then there are options like Martin Jol or Potter of Brighton or some obscure bloke called Poch e what at Southampton. Arsenal got it right with Wenger but they have arguably got it wrong since he went. United were right with Fergusson but repeating the trick is proving difficult.
It's just the same with players. We can all be clever in hindsight but whether player X playing at Y will work as well playing at Spurs will always be a shot in the dark. Of course having almost unlimited funds helps a bit but how many players do Chelsea and City have on their books who never make it into the first on a regular basis?
Blaming Levy for poor decisions in football is a joke because everyone makes poor decisions EVERYONE!. In the pro game all you can hope for is that your owner is interested in the football and club traditions and not just there for making a fast buck.

I was about to post the same. There are no clubs that get it right everytime when appointing managers. The problem we have is that when we appoint the right manager, they always want to move onto to bigger and better prospects. Whereas the likes of Arsenal, Liverpool, Man Utd & City, Chelsea's successful managers don't speak out about wishing to move on.