Off Topic The Politics Thread

[ELLERS]

Labour tried the left with Corbyn and was rejected.
Labour tried the centre with Starmer and was rejected.
The Tories are now the working class party in many areas. People have turned away from traditional Labour seats and voted for the Tories.

Starmer comes across as a slimy North London Lawyer. He looked out of place having a pint in that pub and even worse punching that bag. His shadow cabinet is shocking and his policies are all over the place.
I did say this some time back but was mocked. He doesn’t listen to his voters and stupidly put a remainer up for a seat which voted 71% for Brexit. ... actually

On the other hand Boris has been described as a ‘rock star’ and for his many faults, people like him. He got Brexit done has had an amazing vaccine roll out (yes a government organised roll out). The economy looks set for the biggest bounce since 1947. And while idiots were accusing Boris and the government of the Jersey problem yesterday... the U.K. service sector growth hit a seven-year high (Which is 80% of U.K. economy) it was the fastest rise in output since October 2013. At the same time we are getting in record investment and Liz Truss is doing a fab job striking new deals.

This is why the Tories are doing well and Starmer’s best effort is a photo opportunity with wall paper? Which by the way has also backfired because a meme doing the rounds has made all the rolls blue.

I said before that Labour need to work out who they are, what they believe in and stick to it.

 

[Stroller]

I just hope 'momentum' don't get their grip back on Labour policies. Bunch of nutters but I can see it brewing already...lurch to the left!

I don't think last night's results can be described as a judgment of Labour's policies under Starmer, because I'm not aware of him announcing any significant policy direction. This is a failing in itself of course, but I don't really think he's had much of a chance to define Labour's direction under his leadership yet. He may not be given the chance of course, but I think he's basically a good man, who shouldn't be written off too soon. Equally, Labour's policies under Corbyn and McDonnell (which were popular enough to nearly win the 2017 election, don't forget) shouldn't be abandoned either. Starmer's problem during his first year as leader has been that of an Opposition leader at a time when we've been fighting a war - against Covid. Johnson is viewed as having won that war (on the back of the brilliant success of the NHS vaccine roll-out) despite the fact that he was responsible for thousands of avoidable deaths prior to the availablity of vaccines.

People on here talk about Starmer's lack of personality and how popular Johnson is in comparison. Sadly, this country post-Brexit has become a place where decency and integrity are seen as weaknesses. It's a nastier place.

 

[ELLERS]

I don't think last night's results can be described as a judgment of Labour's policies under Starmer, because I'm not aware of him announcing any significant policy direction. This is a failing in itself of course, but I don't really think he's had much of a chance to define Labour's direction under his leadership yet. He may not be given the chance of course, but I think he's basically a good man, who shouldn't be written off too soon. Equally, Labour's policies under Corbyn and McDonnell (which were popular enough to nearly win the 2017 election, don't forget) shouldn't be abandoned either. Starmer's problem during his first year as leader has been that of an Opposition leader at a time when we've been fighting a war - against Covid. Johnson is viewed as having won that war (on the back of the brilliant success of the NHS vaccine roll-out) despite the fact that he was responsible for thousands of avoidable deaths prior to the availablity of vaccines.

People on here talk about Starmer's lack of personality and how popular Johnson is in comparison. Sadly, this country post-Brexit has become a place where decency and integrity are seen as weaknesses. It's a nastier place.

This is why Labour won't win anything. Deluded supporters that can't see a foot in front of them.

 

[Stroller]

This is why Labour won't win anything. Deluded supporters that can't see a foot in front of them.

I'm really not interested in what you think.

 

[ELLERS]

I'm really not interested in what you think.

Thats fine you waffle on in your deluded world. To be honest, you are always wrong anyway. You talk about 'decency' and you supported an anti-semite? As I said, deluded.

 

[Goldhawk-Road]

Sadly, this country post-Brexit has become a place where decency and integrity are seen as weaknesses. It's a nastier place.

What is a nasty place is a Labour Party Conference when a Jewish MP needed a police escort because the physical threats to her by Party members.

Boris may yet implode but at present he is effective and delivering what the majority of the country wants. I'm sure Sir Kier is a decent man, but he's a poor politician partly because the messages he's trying put to the public have no resonance with them. He walks around looking like a rabbit caught in the headlights.

 

[ELLERS]

What is a nasty place is a Labour Party Conference when a Jewish MP needed a police escort because the physical threats to her by Party members.

Boris may yet implode but at present he is effective and delivering what the majority of the country wants. I'm sure Sir Kier is a decent man, but he's a poor politician partly because the messages he's trying put to the public have no resonance with them. He walks around looking like a rabbit caught in the headlights.

Exactly Goldie. Sadly you are wasting your time as 'Jezza was a decent bloke' and 'Labour nearly won the 2017 election'
Starmer is as dull as dishwater... even his own people said he is 'wooden'.
I will let the delusional's stew in their own stupidity on this one.

 

[Quite Possibly Raving]

Tory record - delivering Brexit and a successful vaccination programme that knocked the EU policy sideways. Tory policy to include continuing signing trade agreements with countries worldwide amid an anticipated period of strong UK growth

Don't forget the Govts economic response to COVID. Throwing a huge amount of money to people directly through furlough payments, small business loans etc is bound to have helped their popularity and it's a bit of a checkmate for Lab who can hardly oppose or outdo that...

 

[Quite Possibly Raving]

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Neatly encapsulates it.

 

[BobbyD]

Agree. One thing Labour can be thankful for, is that the Lib Dems are total non-entities. Otherwise, Labour could see it's position as official opposition usurped, in the same way that Labour took over from the Liberals at the turn of the C20th.

There's no easy fix for Labour. The hard left are saying we were right with Corbyn's policies and it's Brexit that messed us. Believe that, and they'll continue their vortex spiral downwards.

yeah absolutely this. The more that labour continue to eat themselves apart, it's an easy win for the tories

 

[Goldhawk-Road]

Don't forget the Govts economic response to COVID. Throwing a huge amount of money to people directly through furlough payments, small business loans etc is bound to have helped their popularity and it's a bit of a checkmate for Lab who can hardly oppose or outdo that...

Yes, you're right. The government stole Labour's clothes on that one. We're going to need a steep economic recovery to start paying it back through taxes.

 

[Goldhawk-Road]

Exactly Goldie. Sadly you are wasting your time as 'Jezza was a decent bloke' and 'Labour nearly won the 2017 election'
Starmer is as dull as dishwater... even his own people said he is 'wooden'.
I will let the delusional's stew in their own stupidity on this one.

He started off badly in the North having been a well known People's vote supporter. Add to that his lack of MP's and need to soft peddle during the pandemic, it's been hard for him, but you're right, he's dull and he hasn't positioned Labour as he should have done. I don't know what Labour stands for now. I'm not convinced a change of leader now would improve things much. He'll have to watch to see if the Tories "levelling up" agenda has substance or is smoke and mirrors. For their part, the Tories have to deliver, particularly in the North

 

[qprbeth]

As a very small part of the machinery involved in the vaccine roll out.For th e last time..The actual rollout of the vaccine project is nothing to do with the government other than they pay the bills...they have for once left it to the NHS experts.
They are organising the centres, the vaccinaters, the admin, the Covid Marshalls and volunteers

Thank you Boris for paying the wages
Thank you Boris for keeping out of it.

At least this one time there was no cronyism with jobs for the boys

 

[ELLERS]

Blimey did anyone see the 'dark Lord' Peter Mandelson interview on Skynews? Bloody hell for once I actually gave him a bit of credit for what he said.
Firstly he ripped into that idiot Jezza basically blaming him for one of the reasons why Labour lost in Hartlepool. "jezza had fantasy policies" "He cast a long dark shadow over Labour". He said that nearly every door he knocked on said something about Jezza... and not in a nice way. He then went on to have a dig at Starmer and how the Labour Party has been naff since 2010. I can see the 'night of the long hammer and sickle' happening soon.

 

[ELLERS]

As a very small part of the machinery involved in the vaccine roll out.For th e last time..The actual rollout of the vaccine project is nothing to do with the government other than they pay the bills...they have for once left it to the NHS experts.
They are organising the centres, the vaccinaters, the admin, the Covid Marshalls and volunteers

Thank you Boris for paying the wages
Thank you Boris for keeping out of it.

At least this one time there was no cronyism with jobs for the boys

Beth you have made it pretty clear that you don't like the government. That's fine.
I agree it's fab work by the NHS/Volunteers and admin... However it is all controlled by the government. Please don't be silly and think it isn't.

 

[Quite Possibly Raving]

Yes, you're right. The government stole Labour's clothes on that one. We're going to need a steep economic recovery to start paying it back through taxes.

That's where it might get interesting. Fast forward 12 months and if Sunak / Johnson are having to make hard decisions, Labour might be able to cut through a little more. I'm trying to hold off full judgement on Starmer until he's had 12 months post pandemic, as I do think it's been hard to be a proper opposition in these circumstances. That said, hard to disagree with the critiques many on this thread have outlined.

 

[ELLERS]

He started off badly in the North having been a well known People's vote supporter. Add to that his lack of MP's and need to soft peddle during the pandemic, it's been hard for him, but you're right, he's dull and he hasn't positioned Labour as he should have done. I don't know what Labour stands for now. I'm not convinced a change of leader now would improve things much. He'll have to watch to see if the Tories "levelling up" agenda has substance or is smoke and mirrors. For their part, the Tories have to deliver, particularly in the North

It was interesting listening to the 'dark lord' on his comments regarding peoples views on the door step (which he was doing for the past 4 weeks), he said, "not one person mentioned Brexit". He went on to say that "people had moved on from that". Not sure If this was true but interesting.
As for Starmer... I think labour should stick with him but he needs to get rid of the droids in his cabinet, cut out all the cr2p sayings 'dithering', 'sleaze' and the others and that don't work, listen to people and concentrate (like Mandelson said) on a modern Britain.

 

[Goldhawk-Road]

As a very small part of the machinery involved in the vaccine roll out.For th e last time..The actual rollout of the vaccine project is nothing to do with the government other than they pay the bills...they have for once left it to the NHS experts.
They are organising the centres, the vaccinaters, the admin, the Covid Marshalls and volunteers

Thank you Boris for paying the wages
Thank you Boris for keeping out of it.

At least this one time there was no cronyism with jobs for the boys

The government took a calculated risk, Beth, and put in early orders for the vaccine which is where the EU failed. Without the government's procurement policy, the NHS and you and all the other volunteers couldn't have done such a great job rolling it out. The roll out was a fantastic effort. I've been incredibly impressed.

The government paid a bit more than the EU for the vaccines, but given the gravity of the situation, they pitched it dead right imo.

 

[qprbeth]

Beth you have made it pretty clear that you don't like the government. That's fine.
I agree it's fab work by the NHS/Volunteers and admin... However it is all controlled by the government. Please don't be silly and think it isn't.

Happy to say it is controlled by the government, if you will agree the government policies contributed greatly to the 127,000 deaths
The government has caused huge financial losses to the economy by not keeping the pandemic under control (especially last autumn when we already had 6 months practice)
The government is responsible for eroding our civil rights
The government is responsible for the deteriorating mental health and the imminent crisis

No I do not like the government (I am so surprised you can spot that Ellers I thought I hid it well)

I am hugely disillusioned with politicians and politics.
I think this government is the most corrupt government we have ever had, plain evil in some cases
I feel the Labour party is ineffectual and basically doing nothing, which is unforgivable in this crisis
I did not know the Social Democrats were still alive
The Greens have great policies in a very narrow window, and no great plan for the rest of the problem.

I am really angry and have nowhere to let out the pent up emotion....other than to celebrate a group of honest, hard-working brave souls who are called the NHS.
They are the only light in this murky tunnel.

Hope that explains it

 

[ELLERS]

Happy to say it is controlled by the government, if you will agree the government policies contributed greatly to the 127,000 deaths
The government has caused huge financial losses to the economy by not keeping the pandemic under control (especially last autumn when we already had 6 months practice)
The government is responsible for eroding our civil rights
The government is responsible for the deteriorating mental health and the imminent crisis

No I do not like the government (I am so surprised you can spot that Ellers I thought I hid it well)

I am hugely disillusioned with politicians and politics.
I think this government is the most corrupt government we have ever had, plain evil in some cases
I feel the Labour party is ineffectual and basically doing nothing, which is unforgivable in this crisis
I did not know the Social Democrats were still alive
The Greens have great policies in a very narrow window, and no great plan for the rest of the problem.

I am really angry and have nowhere to let out the pent up emotion....other than to celebrate a group of honest, hard-working brave souls who are called the NHS.
They are the only light in this murky tunnel.

Hope that explains it

You want to vote Labour.