Match Day Thread City v Millwall

[AshtonRed]

Has the player been giving his all for the last few months? If he stopped the player can't have been giving his all. That is no fighter mentality.



Those are with respect not answers to the questions.

A way of altering mindset is change. If a player does not demonstrate a core value i.e. hard work selecting the player logically undermines the team values.

No he hasn’t given his all over the last few months I agree, he’s not alone though , most of the team haven’t , that’s not down to him they all need to look at themselves in the mirror. however returning to your point you said he’s NEVER bust a gut , imply he’s been like it all along , that’s the point I picked you up on, not the fact that he has stopped trying recently .

The reason , I believe, many have not been giving their all recently is due to so many of them coming to the end of their contracts at the same time. I’m not condoning it but I believe that’s the reason. It’s wrong, but that’s an argument for another day.

 

[AshtonRed]

Sorry we will have to agree to disagree, I have always considered him lazy, he is predictable and when things are not going his way he is rash a likely to get sent off, there have been several incidents this season where he has been very lucky with lunges and swinging arms.

He does split opinion, between those who think like you and those who agree with me. All about opinion I guess and why we love the game so much

 

[Jiffie]

No he hasn’t given his all over the last few months I agree, he’s not alone though , most of the team haven’t , that’s not down to him they all need to look at themselves in the mirror. however returning to your point you said he’s NEVER bust a gut , imply he’s been like it all along , that’s the point I picked you up on, not the fact that he has stopped trying recently .

The reason , I believe, many have not been giving their all recently is due to so many of them coming to the end of their contracts at the same time. I’m not condoning it but I believe that’s the reason. It’s wrong, but that’s an argument for another day.

Sorry I cannot agree again, we are no different to any other team under these testing times for the sport, most have double figures of players out of contract, even the gas have 10 players out of contract and to be fair out of 13 players we have out of contract, I would only offer deals to 2 maybe 3 and only short term deals to prove their fitness.

 

[Cliftonville]

[QUOTE="Cliftonville, post: 14869103, member: 1019031"

Those are with respect not answers to the questions.

A way of altering mindset is change. If a player does not demonstrate a core value i.e. hard work selecting the player logically undermines the team values.

Well I certainly believe point 1 and 3 are answers, after all for point 1 SL would have to agree to not offer him a contract and you would expect the motivation would be show us you are worth a new contract or 2 show suitors you worth investing in. And point 2 is valid because we only have a few options, especially given Semenyo's lack of form recently. Using the academy strikers sparingly is a good practice for this part of the season, hopefully it will encourage them for next season and what they can achieve and secondly as was shown on Saturday Conway (who is a huge talent) scored a great goal but missed a crucial easier chance to put us ahead and Millwall players targeted him after that and he was subjected to some really hefty challenges, the academy players do not need prolonged exposure to the negativity within the squad.

What principle was upheld by selecting this effort shy player? What example does it set? How does any of that improve the performance of others?

I indicated effort. Selecting a player who demonstrates poor effort undermines the principle. Its a bizarre way to improve the effort of the players team mates. Rewarding poor effort and that is what a starting position in the XI is almost certainly going to have a negative impact on others, we are wired that way as humans.

Seeing this occur given Mr Pearsons reputation was disappointing. A failing I hope to not see again. Bristol City needs as reset. I hope part of that is that a keystone is players are selected because they are honest. Mr Pearson did praise a player in Massengo. A young player displaying honest hardwork. A player who displays a principle, he works hard in defeat and ... City barely win.

Lot of excuses being made for Mr Pearson and by himself. Solutions not excuses now please.

 

[bcfcredandwhite]

I've always said that Fammy is more useful as a Centre Half than a striker. Despite this I've quite liked the guy from what I've seen and read about him - he seems like a genuinely nice bloke and for MOST of the season has worked hard. I say 'most' because as people have pointed out here he seems to have 'switched off' recently - but he isn't the only one of our players to have done that.
Being a nice guy doesn't/shouldn't get him a place in the side, but it does endear him to the fans. I want him to go at the end of the season but I wish him well wherever he ends up.

 

[AshtonRed]

Sorry I cannot agree again, we are no different to any other team under these testing times for the sport, most have double figures of players out of contract, even the gas have 10 players out of contract and to be fair out of 13 players we have out of contract, I would only offer deals to 2 maybe 3 and only short term deals to prove their fitness.

The gas are not an example to prove your point , more to back mine, they have a similar problem to us with lack of effort and bad results and have actually been relegated and will likely end up bottom of their league.

 

[Jiffie]

What principle was upheld by selecting this effort shy player? What example does it set? How does any of that improve the performance of others?

I indicated effort. Selecting a player who demonstrates poor effort undermines the principle. Its a bizarre way to improve the effort of the players team mates. Rewarding poor effort and that is what a starting position in the XI is almost certainly going to have a negative impact on others, we are wired that way as humans.

Seeing this occur given Mr Pearsons reputation was disappointing. A failing I hope to not see again. Bristol City needs as reset. I hope part of that is that a keystone is players are selected because they are honest. Mr Pearson did praise a player in Massengo. A young player displaying honest hardwork. A player who displays a principle, he works hard in defeat and ... City barely win.

Lot of excuses being made for Mr Pearson and by himself. Solutions not excuses now please.

The solutions were always going to be next season, at least SL is well aware of how poor this squad is now, although I would have thought last season should have rung alarm bells, having to sack LJ because of their poor form and turgid performances, but then of course the whole situation was confounded by the cynical season ticket selling lie about a proven new manager only to end with the cheapest of cheap options and the same squad + an injured signing, I think the phrase is a recipe for disaster.

I am still at a loss about what sort of team he was expected to field given our injury list and the number of 'established' first teamer's he would have needed to have dropped.

We are where we are for one reason, SL was more interested in the shiny things than he was in the playing side and now we are reaping that harvest.

 

[Jiffie]

The gas are not an example to prove your point , more to back mine, they have a similar problem to us with lack of effort and bad results and have actually been relegated and will likely end up bottom of their league.

Correct, but the 91 league clubs were the examples to prove my point of which they are one, we are not unique about clubs and players running down their contracts, most clubs below the premiership are in the same boat of having double figure numbers of players out of contract, but where we seem to be unique is at most clubs those double figure numbers are putting the required effort in, to secure their futures in one way or another.

 

[AshtonRed]

Correct, but the 91 league clubs were the examples to prove my point of which they are one, we are not unique about clubs and players running down their contracts, most clubs below the premiership are in the same boat of having double figure numbers of players out of contract, but where we seem to be unique is at most clubs those double figure numbers are putting the required effort in, to secure their futures in one way or another.

You may be right, I have no knowledge of other clubs, but plainly regardless only 3 teams go down, we’ve obviously managed our situation better than some, but less well than others. Maybe Due to our unusual high levels of injury maybe we’ve had to rely more heavily on the OOC players than other clubs? . It’s probably a combination of many factors, to suggest it’s unique to us can’t be right surely.

 

[AshtonRed]

What principle was upheld by selecting this effort shy player? What example does it set? How does any of that improve the performance of others?

I indicated effort. Selecting a player who demonstrates poor effort undermines the principle. Its a bizarre way to improve the effort of the players team mates. Rewarding poor effort and that is what a starting position in the XI is almost certainly going to have a negative impact on others, we are wired that way as humans.

Seeing this occur given Mr Pearsons reputation was disappointing. A failing I hope to not see again. Bristol City needs as reset. I hope part of that is that a keystone is players are selected because they are honest. Mr Pearson did praise a player in Massengo. A young player displaying honest hardwork. A player who displays a principle, he works hard in defeat and ... City barely win.

Lot of excuses being made for Mr Pearson and by himself. Solutions not excuses now please.

With so many not trying I don’t understand how you can select one as an example, and suggest his inclusion has undermined the performance of the rest. Unless you know the dynamics of the group you are guessing, we don’t know what goes on behind the scenes. If Fam was a trouble maker NP wouldn’t have picked him.

 

[Jiffie]

You may be right, I have no knowledge of other clubs, but plainly regardless only 3 teams go down, we’ve obviously managed our situation better than some, but less well than others. Maybe Due to our unusual high levels of injury maybe we’ve had to rely more heavily on the OOC players than other clubs? . It’s probably a combination of many factors, to suggest it’s unique to us can’t be right surely.

I am trying to find some common ground, I really am. But let's get it right Wycombe have by far the lowest budget in our league but still managed to beat us a couple of weeks ago after we turned in a gutless 2nd half performance, they wanted it and we didn't. Rotherham have the 2nd lowest budget in our division and turned us over easily twice and we couldn't even score against them, hardly mustering a shot worthy of the name. Sheffield Wednesday had a 6 point deduction we actually did ok against them taking 4 points and Derby are in huge financial trouble with 2 failed takeovers in this season alone and have to play Sheffield Wednesday this weekend where defeat will send them down. So don't let's kid ourselves, we got lucky.

 

[AshtonRed]

I am trying to find some common ground, I really am. But let's get it right Wycombe have by far the lowest budget in our league but still managed to beat us a couple of weeks ago after we turned in a gutless 2nd half performance, they wanted it and we didn't. Rotherham have the 2nd lowest budget in our division and turned us over easily twice and we couldn't even score against them, hardly mustering a shot worthy of the name. Sheffield Wednesday had a 6 point deduction we actually did ok against them taking 4 points and Derby are in huge financial trouble with 2 failed takeovers in this season alone and have to play Sheffield Wednesday this weekend where defeat will send them down. So don't let's kid ourselves, we got lucky.

I’m not disagreeing with you we are awful, possibly the worst I can remember, where we differ is the reason for it. I really don’t pretend to know the answer , I do however believe it’s probably a combination of having an awful recruitment policy recently, our choice of manager when LJ left, and due to our dreadful injury issues having to rely too heavily on OOC players who don’t give a monkeys.

I’m hoping NP can change things sufficiently during pre season to allow us to manage mid table obscurity next season, as I think that’s the best we can hope for, before hopefully improving again the season after.

edit
Btw in dreading Sat as I fully expect Brentford to get a hat full, it’s likely to be embarrassing, again.

 

[realred1952]

We are at the end of a very difficult period embracing all players at all clubs its not 1 season but 1 year that includes almost 1 and a half seasons. when you are about to win something... anything, your adrenalin and well being factor is above average. when there is nothing to gain or in a losing period the downward spiral kicks in. It becomes a WSC time and you readdress the situation.

There is likely up to 2500 players in EFL who as part of their team, play [ a part ], in the LAST GAME this weekend. Teams in 3rd to sixth may be into playing for safety... need to play in PO's and don't want injury.. teams in bottom 4 will all be hoping for that miracle of form that ensure Championship football ...Wycombe is on a hiding to nothing need a 6-0 win and a 5-0 loss [ 11 goal turn around ] and then work through the maths to see should they survive.

Players probably 2000 of them will be glad it's all over, maybe 500 will be jobless at present employer.... whether playing or not, down in the dumps … City players ARE COPING with 4th "in charge" coach/ manager in just over a year... likely with the MA movement /uncertainty, nothing has been done [contract wise ] for the past 3-4 month's till he is/was sorted.. not a really pleasant work place atmosphere. You get players who have been brought through the ranks for maybe 2-3 years [ part of the " continuity plan" ] suddenly getting a new broom! new atmosphere different playing pattern etc .. Ok NP has had a non pressurised couple of months to jiggle and wiggle to assess and make a plan, indeed see what the next few years will bring …. [ how many managers who were in top half of the tables or in reasonable positions to gain something been removed from duties, by petulant owners? gosh how safe must he feel here !!!! ]

The last 5 years have been a massive positive move forward by BCFC [ BSport ] BY STAFF/COACH'S etc to bring the club into the 21st century, from the 8-9 year olds to the 38 year olds all have been part. OK has anyone had a item car from new that eventually didn't break down! my last 3 new vehicles attained something like 110k 390k and 260k before some thing major [ computer management system board, egr/egm hardware/rust in that order ].

It is only natural that players at BCFC WILL HAVE A LOT OF APPREHENSION ABOUT THEIR POSITION under present circumstances, it is not like any of us getting a "new" job [same house /schools etc ] … the job [ club] could be 300 miles away or in a city with little character or poor schools, a division or 2 lower or far less wages …worry it intensifies all the negative aspects .. don't want to make wrong pass dont want to get injured don't want to be in losing team etc etc etc


I wrote off our club achieving anything than the odd draw about 5 or 6 games ago … I forcast we would win games … on the off chance! ...I expect to see us after 10 games in 21/22 on at least 19 points ... depending on how fixtures fall playing potentially majority of prospective clubs for top 6 no less than 14 points other way round no less than 23 points.

so NP 10 GAMES!!! = minimum target is 14 points from 10 after 23 games = 39 points … anything less then you need to try harder, first season = 70+ points!

 

[Jiffie]

I’m not disagreeing with you we are awful, possibly the worst I can remember, where we differ is the reason for it. I really don’t pretend to know the answer , I do however believe it’s probably a combination of having an awful recruitment policy recently, our choice of manager when LJ left, and due to our dreadful injury issues having to rely too heavily on OOC players who don’t give a monkeys.

I’m hoping NP can change things sufficiently during pre season to allow us to manage mid table obscurity next season, as I think that’s the best we can hope for, before hopefully improving again the season after.

edit
Btw in dreading Sat as I fully expect Brentford to get a hat full, it’s likely to be embarrassing, again.

I agree with all of this the only difference between us is, I believe virtually every other club with a similar amount of out of contract players seem to have out performed our out of contract players, so I pretty ignore that as an excuse, it's just IMHO a symptom of the dysfunctional way SL has allowed our club to be run by his favourite son Mark Ashton.

I will give you another anomaly, Gee Mcghee alluded to it in an article several weeks ago and it wasn't seized on by many fans, for some reason. It would appear that the club do not use the fantastic private medical facilities in Bristol for injury scans, we send our players to Worcestershire or somewhere up the way for scans, i'm sorry but call me cynical but to me that smacks greasy palms somewhere within the club, that added to what happened with Williams for all of this season is frankly scandalous.

People are trying to make a point about LJ being sacked and having digs at Pearson to prove they are right, these people are getting angry with the wrong people, you said in your defence of Diedhiou that he is a nice guy, I met him once and you are correct, I find him engaging, funny and observant. I could say the same thing about SL, he comes across as a nice guy but he is too blame totally for our current woes and that is where the blame should be aimed, the warning signs were there last season and I kept saying on this forum that we were piss weak in midfield, slow, predictable and non creative, I also heavily criticised our full/wing backs as being wholly inadequate and what was our solution after the cynical installation of Holden? we sign an injured midfielder and we let our 22 year back up specialist left back leave on loan In short IMHO SL seriously took his eye off of the ball in his Guernsey bunker and ignored last seasons obvious warning signs and we are paying the price.

Let me offer you this as a possible reason for some players lousy attitude, maybe just maybe they are like me and many other fans pissed off with the lack of investment in quality over the past 2 seasons, maybe to oil the wheels of Wells signing for us, he was promised investment to change our crappy midfield to one that would create the type of chances that he thrived on whilst at QPR supported by a very creative midfield and maybe just maybe that is case with more than a few others.

 

[Cliftonville]

No he hasn’t given his all over the last few months I agree, he’s

A senior pro.

When that is a role model, when bars are set that low in performance standards have to drop ..That standard, that light of guidance for others was in the team.

 

[AshtonRed]

I agree with all of this the only difference between us is, I believe virtually every other club with a similar amount of out of contract players seem to have out performed our out of contract players, so I pretty ignore that as an excuse, it's just IMHO a symptom of the dysfunctional way SL has allowed our club to be run by his favourite son Mark Ashton.

I will give you another anomaly, Gee Mcghee alluded to it in an article several weeks ago and it wasn't seized on by many fans, for some reason. It would appear that the club do not use the fantastic private medical facilities in Bristol for injury scans, we send our players to Worcestershire or somewhere up the way for scans, i'm sorry but call me cynical but to me that smacks greasy palms somewhere within the club, that added to what happened with Williams for all of this season is frankly scandalous.

People are trying to make a point about LJ being sacked and having digs at Pearson to prove they are right, these people are getting angry with the wrong people, you said in your defence of Diedhiou that he is a nice guy, I met him once and you are correct, I find him engaging, funny and observant. I could say the same thing about SL, he comes across as a nice guy but he is too blame totally for our current woes and that is where the blame should be aimed, the warning signs were there last season and I kept saying on this forum that we were piss weak in midfield, slow, predictable and non creative, I also heavily criticised our full/wing backs as being wholly inadequate and what was our solution after the cynical installation of Holden? we sign an injured midfielder and we let our 22 year back up specialist left back leave on loan In short IMHO SL seriously took his eye off of the ball in his Guernsey bunker and ignored last seasons obvious warning signs and we are paying the price.

Let me offer you this as a possible reason for some players lousy attitude, maybe just maybe they are like me and many other fans pissed off with the lack of investment in quality over the past 2 seasons, maybe to oil the wheels of Wells signing for us, he was promised investment to change our crappy midfield to one that would create the type of chances that he thrived on whilst at QPR supported by a very creative midfield and maybe just maybe that is case with more than a few others.

It’s a possibility I guess, but speculation, as I said to Clifton we don’t know the dynamics of the group or what goes on behind the scenes. For whatever reason the OOC players have downed tools and don’t give a monkeys. To me the fact NP wasn’t able to change it means it was deep seated, but IMO it’s not his fault, he has no choice to play many of them due to the amount of injuries we have.

 

[Jiffie]

It’s a possibility I guess, but speculation, as I said to Clifton we don’t know the dynamics of the group or what goes on behind the scenes. For whatever reason the OOC players have downed tools and don’t give a monkeys. To me the fact NP wasn’t able to change it means it was deep seated, but IMO it’s not his fault, he has no choice to play many of them due to the amount of injuries we have.

Definitely deep seated it started last season and did for LJ and then Holden this season, as I say this hasn't happened overnight or this season, it's at least 2 seasons in the making now.

 

[Redprintt]

Don't think it's the last 2 seaaons, it started the day Junior, a complete novice, was appointed.
65 signings only delayed the inevitable and we are now the worst side in the Championship.

BCFC have been left with an appalling legacy.

 

[oneforthebristolcity]

Don't think it's the last 2 seaaons, it started the day Junior, a complete novice, was appointed.
65 signings only delayed the inevitable and we are now the worst side in the Championship.

BCFC have been left with an appalling legacy.

So much progress made since he left

 

[Jiffie]

So much progress made since he left

Correct by a sub standard squad, who only play when it suits them and got him sacked.