Daily Racing Thread Wednesday 21st. April 2021

[smokethedeadbadger]

He absolutely was doing exactly as he was told, the man who gave him his instructions wasnt even there to face the music! If the jockey gets a ban then surely the trainer and the horse should too.
I dont believe he gets the horse boxed in on purpose. If he chose to switch out and come four wide into the straight he would be getting slaughtered for doing that too.
In essence, I think you are all actually blaming the wrong man!

I agree with what you're saying in that he isn't fully to blame but he has to take the responsibility because he can hardly throw his employer under the bus. I do disagree about getting boxed in. It looked a very deliberate move to me especially with the way he was constantly keeping an eye on the other Gosden horse throughout the race. And he could have still won the race after that but chose not to go past

 

[NassauBoard]

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for anyone who hasn't seen it.

 

[Ron]

There are horses running every day that aren't being ridden to obtain the best possible finishing position. I don't see anything wrong with that in young horses learning their trade. It is part of parcel of looking after your horse to ensure it has the best chance of fulfilling its potential. The same thing happens in show jumping where instructions to "make sure the horse enjoys his introduction and just get it round safely in its own time" is seen as good horse care with its future in mind. The only reason it becomes an issue in horse racing is because of betting. The one thing that would avoid the problem of jockeys being banned for these incidents is, as Nass says, for trainers to declare intentions ;;;;;;;;;;;;;;; and I would add, the horse to be removed from the betting

 

[NassauBoard]

There are horses running every day that aren't being ridden to obtain the best possible finishing position. I don't see anything wrong with that in young horses learning their trade. It is part of parcel of looking after your horse to ensure it has the best chance of fulfilling its potential. The same thing happens in show jumping where instructions to "make sure the horse enjoys his introduction and just get it round safely in its own time" is seen as good horse care with its future in mind. The only reason it becomes an issue in horse racing is because of betting. The one thing that would avoid the problem of jockeys being banned for these incidents is, as Nass says, for trainers to declare intentions ;;;;;;;;;;;;;;; and I would add, the horse to be removed from the betting

Or for horses to be coupled in the betting on trainers. There is a fine line with all of this, but when a horse is blatantly ridden to not achieve its best position the whole set of connections need to be examined, especially when the betting is so damning.

Additionally, I think the BHA needs to rethink the whole approach of race types, I think the novice races are in theory good races for the sport, but it stinks when only one or two runners are being ridden to trouble a previous winner.

 

[Bustino74]

Havlin's ban today looks really harsh to me. The horse got held up at a crucial time but got going again and was flying. An unlucky loser and one to follow but not sure what the stewards thought Havlin could have done differently. Lingfield is a tricky track and that sort of incident is a regular occurrence.

Have some sympathy with Havlin but also think others have their points. Watched the race live and must admit my initial reaction was 'what the hell was Dettori doing'?. He was far too easy on the winner in the last furlong and in two strides would have lost the race. It would have have been him suspended then.

 

[NassauBoard]

Have some sympathy with Havlin but also think others have their points. Watched the race live and must admit my initial reaction was 'what the hell was Dettori doing'?. He was far too easy on the winner in the last furlong and in two strides would have lost the race. It would have have been him suspended then.

Oh I am not sure about that, Dettori picked the whip up twice in the final furlong and he was pushing him along much more than Havlin was pretending to do so on the second.

 

[Bustino74]

Yes he was pushing him along but hardly that vigorously. If he'd have lost that he'd have looked as if he was easy on the horse. He was driving it coming into the straight, went 4 lengths clear and then seemed to be taking it easy. If it needed driving 2 furlongs out what happened in the last furlong? Look at Dettori's riding posture in the last 10 yards, he was easing up, hardly the posture of a jockey driving his horse to the line.
Also look at the movement of the 2nd horse. He is running as green as grass, looking around. He should have won, agreed but ........

 

[NassauBoard]

Yes he was pushing him along but hardly that vigorously. If he'd have lost that he'd have looked as if he was easy on the horse. He was driving it coming into the straight, went 4 lengths clear and then seemed to be taking it easy. If it needed driving 2 furlongs out what happened in the last furlong? Look at Dettori's riding posture in the last 10 yards, he was easing up, hardly the posture of a jockey driving his horse to the line.
Also look at the movement of the 2nd horse. He is running as green as grass, looking around. He should have won, agreed but ........

Agree to disagree on Frankie, I think he went too soon but giving him a stroke at the furlong pole and then one in the last half was fair enough.

 

[Ron]

Or for horses to be coupled in the betting on trainers. There is a fine line with all of this, but when a horse is blatantly ridden to not achieve its best position the whole set of connections need to be examined, especially when the betting is so damning.

Additionally, I think the BHA needs to rethink the whole approach of race types, I think the novice races are in theory good races for the sport, but it stinks when only one or two runners are being ridden to trouble a previous winner.

Yes, as in France, and presumably some other countries. That would be the simple and obvious solution where the trainer has more than one entry.

Referring to show jumping again, there has been betting on some events. Even at Pony of The Year Show when Amanda was jumping, there was a class with betting. But this was a class where only qualified ponies could compete and was worth a lot of money in winnings; no non triers in that. If it weren't for the income from betting one could argue that there could be races for novices where no betting was allowed and these would be the races where owners could run their horses for education

 

[NassauBoard]

Yes, as in France, and presumably some other countries. That would be the simple and obvious solution where the trainer has more than one entry.

Referring to show jumping again, there has been betting on some events. Even at Pony of The Year Show when Amanda was jumping, there was a class with betting. But this was a class where only qualified ponies could compete and was worth a lot of money in winnings; no non triers in that. If it weren't for the income from betting one could argue that there could be races for novices where no betting was allowed and these would be the races where owners could run their horses for education

https://itm.ie/en/Barrier_Trials/


It sounds a very sensible approach to me.