Off Topic Colstons Statue - Again

[Jiffie]

Not as straight forward as that though is it? , and even if illegal still needs to be dealt with sympathetically especially as the person thought to have committed the murder was a policeman, also other cities handled similar incidents sensitively. As football fans I’m sure we’ve all seen incidents which could have been handled better by our friends in blue.

It's called policing with by consent of the people and I suspect from what I have seen that the gathered crowd were far from consenting and a sad fact of modern life is that I would also make an educated guess that some very sad people actually went there to cause trouble and couldn't give a toss about the real reason that the majority were gathered there for.

 

[realred1952]

Not as straight forward as that though is it? , and even if illegal still needs to be dealt with sympathetically especially as the person thought to have committed the murder was a policeman, also other cities handled similar incidents sensitively

apparently they went for hours allowing the crowd to grow [ from 2pm onward ] I don't watch Tv reports all the time and twatter and faceache are not in my "arsenal of feeds" … and only picked up on it because Microsoft edge is a news feed when you log in or add pages … from 2pm to about 1830 they just allowed the crowd to grow then started to arrest people when it got dark!!!
they have no sympathy in the "Met" … proved time and time again, a different mind set .?
not seen any news today so far so maybe shouldn't add anymore … but I reckon it was totally wrong and action should have taken place earlier … everyone there should be arrested not just one or two ! … look out for the next organization WLM or AWWLM

 

[Cliftonville]

Not as straight forward as that though is it?

No the peaceful vigil was attended by people in balaclavas, carrying acab signs, spray paint, megaphones ... Meanwhile Covid took another 300 lives,

 

[AshtonRed]

No the peaceful vigil was attended by people in balaclavas, carrying acab signs, spray paint, megaphones ... Meanwhile Covid took another 300 lives,

I’m not sure that’s true, but even when if it is, deal with those but not the rest who were there for a peaceful vigil , as for 30 deaths , that’s a silly argument, how many were due to the vigil . Other cities dealt with similar events without the need to result to these methods

 

[realred1952]

I’m not sure that’s true, but even when if it is, deal with those but not the rest who were there for a peaceful vigil , as for 30 deaths , that’s a silly argument, how many were due to the vigil . Other cities dealt with similar events without the need to result to these methods

? the comment was a comparison to EC statue event and deaths were 300 not 30? .. not seen Saturday figure yet so cant firm 300 … and yes the whole of 2020 demo's had basically a hands off approach unless "violent or abusive individuals pushed it! " oh except for AVON POLICE who allowed vandalism …..

 

[Jiffie]

I’m not sure that’s true, but even when if it is, deal with those but not the rest who were there for a peaceful vigil , as for 30 deaths , that’s a silly argument, how many were due to the vigil . Other cities dealt with similar events without the need to result to these methods

Of course it's true if you believe that 'everybody' was there for peaceful purposes then you are naive.

Not a silly argument how many may die through being there and worse still how many others who were not there will they pass it on to.

Other cities did not as usual have similar events on such a huge scale as usual.

 

[AshtonRed]

It's called policing with by consent of the people and I suspect from what I have seen that the gathered crowd were far from consenting and a sad fact of modern life is that I would also make an educated guess that some very sad people actually went there to cause trouble and couldn't give a toss about the real reason that the majority were gathered there for.

Then deal with the trouble makers appropriately and leave the peaceful ones to have their vigil, had one of their number ( the met police ) not been accused of murdering a women the vigil would not have even been taking place

 

[AshtonRed]

Of course it's true if you believe that 'everybody' was there for peaceful purposes then you are naive.

Not a silly argument how many may die through being there and worse still how many others who were not there will they pass it on to.

Other cities did not as usual have similar events on such a huge scale as usual.

I’m not suggesting there were no trouble makers, it’s the same argument used against football fans, I don’t want to be dealt with in the same way as morons that go to games looking for trouble either

 

[Cliftonville]

I’m not sure that’s true, but even when if it is, deal with those but not the rest who were there for a peaceful vigil , as for 30 deaths , that’s a silly argument, how many were due to the vigil . Other cities dealt with similar events without the need to result to these methods

The Country is under lock down. 300 + people a day are dying. Public gatherings break guidelines. The vigil was illegal (court ruling). The ban was defied and the peaceful vigil was attended by people whose motives were not peaceful.

 

[Jiffie]

Then deal with the trouble makers appropriately and leave the peaceful ones to have their vigil, had one of their number ( the met police ) not been accused of murdering a women the vigil would not have even been taking place

Show me your evidence that proves that the people being dealt with were not trouble makers?

Your last sentence just about sums up why there was trouble.

I am not defending what happened but it seems that the biggest noise is coming from people who weren't even there. The Met commissioner has been a disaster and should have resigned over the operation midland circus.

As I said before, where was the 'sisterhood' when Rochdale and Rotherham and all of the other towns and cities were dealing with grooming, rape and abuse on an industrial scale, why has it taken this to mobilise them, there must be a reason surely?. Maybe had they mobilised earlier it might not have come to this.

 

[AshtonRed]

Show me your evidence that proves that the people being dealt with were not trouble makers?

Your last sentence just about sums up why there was trouble.

I am not defending what happened but it seems that the biggest noise is coming from people who weren't even there. The Met commissioner has been a disaster and should have resigned over the operation midland circus.

As I said before, where was the 'sisterhood' when Rochdale and Rotherham and all of the other towns and cities were dealing with grooming, rape and abuse on an industrial scale, why has it taken this to mobilise them, there must be a reason surely?. Maybe had they mobilised earlier it might not have come to this.

For you to suggest they were all trouble makers is naive , if you believe that’s the case show me your evidence. I’m not saying I agree with their cause but I sure the hell agree they have the right to hold a peaceful vigil for something THEY obviously feel very strongly about.

 

[Jiffie]

For you to suggest they were all trouble makers is naive , if you believe that’s the case show me your evidence. I’m not saying I agree with their cause but I sure the hell agree they have the right to hold a peaceful vigil for something THEY obviously feel very strongly about.

Show me where said that they were all trouble makers please?

But not strongly enough about thousands of northern working class girls and why would that be exactly? take a bit of a guess? those females weren't safe, they weren't protected and certainly not supported by the sisterhood, there has to be a reason.

 

[Redprintt]

I sure the hell agree they have the right to hold a peaceful vigil for something THEY obviously feel very strongly about.

I don't, there is a lock down in place.
There are lots of folk that have strong feelings like those who suffer from cancer. Their life saving treatment is delayed, I can't imagine how strongly they feel.
Should we have a vigil for those poor souls?

Peaceful vigil or no, sadly it often attracts those bent on trouble.

 

[AshtonRed]

Show me where said that they were all trouble makers please?

But not strongly enough about thousands of northern working class girls and why would that be exactly? take a bit of a guess? those females weren't safe, they weren't protected and certainly not supported by the sisterhood, there has to be a reason.

Obviously that was wrong, but that’s a different question and not a reason THIS vigil should be criticised, I don’t believe all were trouble makers and therefore shouldn’t have been dealt with in a strong arm fashion. Obviously I wasn’t there but , probably like you, I’ve experience of being dealt with in a similar fashion for just being a football fan s my sympathies tend to be with the women.

 

[Jiffie]

I don't, there is a lock down in place.
There are lots of folk that have strong feelings like those who suffer from cancer. Their life saving treatment is delayed, I can't imagine how strongly they feel.
Should we have a vigil for those poor souls?

Peaceful vigil or no, sadly it often attracts those bent on trouble.

Correct and the police were told social distancing would be observed, there was little evidence of that.

 

[RedorDead]

Show me your evidence that proves that the people being dealt with were not trouble makers?

Your last sentence just about sums up why there was trouble.

I am not defending what happened but it seems that the biggest noise is coming from people who weren't even there. The Met commissioner has been a disaster and should have resigned over the operation midland circus.

As I said before, where was the 'sisterhood' when Rochdale and Rotherham and all of the other towns and cities were dealing with grooming, rape and abuse on an industrial scale, why has it taken this to mobilise them, there must be a reason surely?. Maybe had they mobilised earlier it might not have come to this.

What a weird comparison with the Rochdale and Rotherham scenarios. There was public outrage there as well.

Do you think that it’s ok for women to be afraid to walk home alone? Or do you think that it’s about time that they stood up to be able to express their fear and hope that it changes?

Because you’re comparing it, it sounds like you don’t think they should voice their opinion on what they feel like.

 

[AshtonRed]

I don't, there is a lock down in place.
There are lots of folk that have strong feelings like those who suffer from cancer. Their life saving treatment is delayed, I can't imagine how strongly they feel.
Should we have a vigil for those poor souls?

Peaceful vigil or no, sadly it often attracts those bent on trouble.

If you want to then yes , if you feel strongly enough and I would defend your right to do so as vehemently as I am these women

 

[AshtonRed]

Correct and the police were told social distancing would be observed, there was little evidence of that.

So the answer was to Wade in, very Covid friendly that was

 

[Jiffie]

Obviously that was wrong, but that’s a different question and not a reason THIS vigil should be criticised, I don’t believe all were trouble makers and therefore shouldn’t have been dealt with in a strong arm fashion. Obviously I wasn’t there but , probably like you, I’ve experience of being dealt with in a similar fashion for just being a football fan s my sympathies tend to be with the women.

Again show me where I said all were trouble makers?.

Again how do you know that those being dealt with weren't trouble makers?.

Answer this should we allow mob rule in the UK?. If your answer is NO, tell me what do you suggest a police officer who makes a perfectly lawful request for a person to move away from a vigil/protest do if that person refuses?, give in to mob rule?

It is ok to criticise but you have to have some answers to dealing with what is a problem.

 

[AshtonRed]

Again show me where I said all were trouble makers?.

Again how do you know that those being dealt with weren't trouble makers?.

Answer this should we allow mob rule in the UK?. If your answer is NO, tell me what do you suggest a police officer who makes a perfectly lawful request for a person to move away from a vigil/protest do if that person refuses?, give in to mob rule?

It is ok to criticise but you have to have some answers to dealing with what is a problem.

If you don’t believe they were trouble makers why would you think they need to be moved on?, just leave them to disputes naturally, no force needed , no conflict, it’s not difficult. You suggesting the police were right implies they were trouble makers , why else would they need to use any form of force, especially in light of the original reason for the vigil.
It was obvious their strong arm actions were going to be brought into question and provocative images were going to be everywhere , either that was deliberate to point out the difficult position the Covid rules have put the police in or it was incompetence on behalf of Cressida Dick.