Match Day Thread Vs Man Utd (H)

[luvgonzo]

People over analyse football at times, the basis of any game is to win the physical battle as a starting point, you have to be mentally prepared to outwork the opposition, once you have done that you can then implement tactics and become more creative.

We are not winning those battles and will continue to struggle until we get back to this.

 

[Jimmy Squarefoot]

People over analyse football at times, the basis of any game is to win the physical battle as a starting point, you have to be mentally prepared to outwork the opposition, once you have done that you can then implement tactics and become more creative.

We are not winning those battles and will continue to struggle until we get back to this.

You're not wrong but I think you're oversimplifying the issue. There is no single issue but it's a number of them, each one of having a cumulative knock on impact. The VVD injury alone is what caused us to over work Matip and Gomez leading to their injuries, it then led us to losing our best DM by having to move him into defence. We lost control in defence and midfield as a result of this. Then we have had to overplay other players in midfield. So the system and style that we have played with and been successful with for the past 2-3 years is now completely changed.

You're right in that we need players to be up for the fight and we also need to adapt. But this is not an easy thing to remedy simply by being up for it.

 

[luvgonzo]

You're not wrong but I think you're oversimplifying the issue. There is no single issue but it's a number of them, each one of having a cumulative knock on impact. The VVD injury alone is what caused us to over work Matip and Gomez leading to their injuries, it then led us to losing our best DM by having to move him into defence. We lost control in defence and midfield as a result of this. Then we have had to overplay other players in midfield. So the system and style that we have played with and been successful with for the past 2-3 years is now completely changed.

You're right in that we need players to be up for the fight and we also need to adapt. But this is not an easy thing to remedy simply by being up for it.

I think it is. Everyone has injuries and the remaining players need to first of all be physically and mentally ready. Undoubtedly there will be aspects of our game missing due to players being out but it should result in the insipid performances from the team overall.

 

[moreinjuredthanowen]

The scum struggled against Watford at the weekend. This is must win. I don't want those ****s ending our unbeaten home run.

they played lingard and james. Mata and greenwood as well.

forget watford.

 

[SIR_KENNY_KLOPP_KING]

So if our defence sits even 10 yards deeper, which it has to right now, our midfield have to cover much more space and are much less effective.....so, our attacking players have to drop deeper and we have to work our way up the pitch....which is much, much harder than winning it higher and attacking. I think that this all stems from that and while it’s not been great, it’s still carved out enough chances to win most games easily....so if we improve our finishing, which we are capable of doing, and have more incisive passing from the middle (Thiago, Shaq), we can weather this storm....but make no mistake, we will will still concede plenty and imo, we will not win the league because of that. I accept that without pointing the finger of blame anywhere. Now, if we were to buy the right kind of CB in the next couple of weeks....that changes everything.

 

[moreinjuredthanowen]

I think it is. Everyone has injuries and the remaining players need to first of all be physically and mentally ready. Undoubtedly there will be aspects of out game missing due to players being out but it should result in time insipid perfirmances from the team overall.

You are right.

It should not matter what 11 start this game they should be well aware that nothing less than the threshing of wolves, Leicester and spurs will do but especially not when its the most hated rival of them all.

To not turn up or be made to look bereft against utd would be a total crisis. Thats what they should be thinking and they should be absolutely on fire from minute zero

 

[Jimmy Squarefoot]

I think it is. Everyone has injuries and the remaining players need to first of all be physically and mentally ready. Undoubtedly there will be aspects of our game missing due to players being out but it should result in the insipid performances from the team overall.

I expect more from the players as well but bear in mind - we have no senior centre backs starting and our best DM is in defence. The foundation for this team not just from a defensive aspect but also an offensive aspect is massively weaker.

 

[luvgonzo]

I expect more from the players as well but bear in mind - we have no senior centre backs starting and our best DM is in defence. The foundation for this team not just from a defensive aspect but also an offensive aspect is massively weaker.

Yeah all true but not an excuse for the lack of effort I'm seeing.

 

[Jimmy Squarefoot]

So if our defence sits even 10 yards deeper, which it has to right now, our midfield have to cover much more space and are much less effective.....so, our attacking players have to drop deeper and we have to work our way up the pitch....which is much, much harder than winning it higher and attacking. I think that this all stems from that and while it’s not been great, it’s still carved out enough chances to win most games easily....so if we improve our finishing, which we are capable of doing, and have more incisive passing from the middle (Thiago, Shaq), we can weather this storm....but make no mistake, we will will still concede plenty and imo, we will not win the league because of that. I accept that without pointing the finger of blame anywhere. Now, if we were to buy the right kind of CB in the next couple of weeks....that changes everything.

Exactly this. People are assuming that because we've our normal front 3, that we should still be scoring and winning games as normal. The issue is far deeper than that however I wish we had changed and adapted far quicker because it's clear we cant play the same way.

 

[Jimmy Squarefoot]

Yeah all true but not an excuse for the lack of effort I'm seeing.

I don't think it's a lack of effort though. I think it's a lack of form and quality. After a few of the awful performances recently, I was also critical of the front 3 because it looked like they weren't moving enough but on closer inspection, the problem is they are having to drop deeper to collect the ball because if they don't, all they have to go off on is stupid long balls which they simply won't get.

I know it's only the Villa u18's but the contrast between the first half and second half perfectly illustrates the issue. In the second half, the front 3 looked so much more lively because they were getting the ball to their feet and in the box. It was direct, it quick and it was risky.

 

[SIR_KENNY_KLOPP_KING]

If everyone agrees that our best midfield when all Players are available is Fab, Hendo and Thiago, then people also need to accept that the defensive crisis has also given us a midfield crisis. Next season will be different but right now, it’s painful as the spine of our defence and midfield has been in effect, completely missing.

 

[jaffaSlot]

Our form is down to work rate imo, we are not going at teams like we used to. Last season we hounded every team.

Agree completely. Complete lack of effort and pressuring opposition. No urgency to our play at all, which is normall what we excel at.

 

[Zanjinho]

If everyone agrees that our best midfield when all Players are available is Fab, Hendo and Thiago, then people also need to accept that the defensive crisis has also given us a midfield crisis. Next season will be different but right now, it’s painful as the spine of our defence and midfield has been in effect, completely missing.

One player (Fabinho) missing (from midfield) doesn't constitute a crisis but it's certainly made a difference.

VVD & Gomez is obviously the bigger issue though. Not only do they offer so much offensively, their pace allow our playmaker (the press) to be most effective because we can squeeze teams.

Add to this the fixture congestion and the need to preserve energy levels, I believe this is why the attack is struggling

 

[Jimmy Squarefoot]

One player (Fabinho) missing (from midfield) doesn't constitute a crisis but it's certainly made a difference.

VVD & Gomez is obviously the bigger issue though. Not only do they offer so much offensively, their pace allow our playmaker (the press) to be most effective because we can squeeze teams.

Add to this the fixture congestion and the need to preserve energy levels, I believe this is why the attack is struggling

And we have massively out of form Trent who is arguably our best creator.

Not saying that the front 3 have been great or haven't been wasteful but I think there are bigger underlying issues that need to be addressed first.

 

[SIR_KENNY_KLOPP_KING]

One player (Fabinho) missing (from midfield) doesn't constitute a crisis but it's certainly made a difference.

VVD & Gomez is obviously the bigger issue though. Not only do they offer so much offensively, their pace allow our playmaker (the press) to be most effective because we can squeeze teams.

Add to this the fixture congestion and the need to preserve energy levels, I believe this is why the attack is struggling

Two if you include Hendo who will likely play in defence vs Utd

 

[SIR_KENNY_KLOPP_KING]

And we have massively out of form Trent who is arguably our best creator.

Not saying that the front 3 have been great or haven't been wasteful but I think there are bigger underlying issues that need to be addressed first.

Same problem as with midfield. Opposition have always targeted the space behind TAA and, less so, Robbo and we have coped - ok, we lose the occasional goal that we all whinge about but normally, that space is covered by fast CB’s or Quality DCM’s and even when it wasn’t and a cross came flying in, we had quality CB’s clearing it....fact is that everything about how we play is disrupted because of the injuries AND the need to use our best midfielders in defence.

 

[Zanjinho]

Same problem as with midfield. Opposition have always targeted the space behind TAA and, less so, Robbo and we have coped - ok, we lose the occasional goal that we all whinge about but normally, that space is covered by fast CB’s or Quality DCM’s and even when it wasn’t and a cross came flying in, we had quality CB’s clearing it....fact is that everything about how we play is disrupted because of the injuries AND the need to use our best midfielders in defence.

The same thing used to happen to Glen Johnson and got crucified for it. In reality, it's the style of FB and they can't be in two places at once; we either want then to be attacking or defensive. If Trent goes defensive, our attack becomes even worse. If he attacks, whoever plays CB isn't able to deal with it like Gomez & VVD. Those two missing really as effected the entire pitch.

 

[SIR_KENNY_KLOPP_KING]

The same thing used to happen to Glen Johnson and got crucified for it. In reality, it's the style of FB and they can't be in two places at once; we either want then to be attacking or defensive. If Trent goes defensive, our attack becomes even worse. If he attacks, whoever plays CB isn't able to deal with it like Gomez & VVD. Those two missing really as effected the entire pitch.

Exactly.

 

[moreinjuredthanowen]

TAA's issues are covid related but its not really about positioning or ability to get up and down but losing the ball. kicking it away, poor frees, kicking it out of play etc.

I doubt anyone really has an issue with TAA bar temporary form unless of course you are one of the types that follow the most shallow line that he can't defend due to one game as a 19 year old where rashford scored 2.

TAA knows what he needs to do.

 

[luvgonzo]

So Utd 2 weeks in a row then should be interesting.