Off Topic Brexit

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captain wrong said:
People start crying in here because their stupid votes need a reconsidering..

Everyone knows it.. They'd lose if people voted now and that's why they're scared of it... Trying to use the will of the people argument... Well let's just check If its the will of the people that's so important to them..

The situation is different and in a very big way
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Apparently this referendum was the only democratic vote in history. No matter that vote leave was based on populist lies. That it only took place because of Tory infighting and was called by cowardly and arrogant man. That people who voted for leave had no idea what type of terms they were voting for. That 16 and 17 year olds, the generation who will have to pay for brexit, were denied the vote. That 98.5% of Gibraltar and the majority of Scotland and Ulster were ignored thereby jepardising the Union that Tories hold so dear. That brexiters cried 'undemocratic' when people called for a confirmatory referendum.
26.5% of the population voted for a brexit that most didn't understand the consequences of. Can any brexity posters here honestly claim that they voted in the expectation that it would take 54 months and counting to partly conclude, causing massive divisions within households, within England, within the UK and with our greatest friends and neighbours on the continent? Not to mention the financial cost now and hereafter.
 
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AgentofAlnwick said:
Apparently this referendum was the only democratic vote in history. No matter that vote leave was based on populist lies. That it only took place because of Tory infighting and was called by cowardly and arrogant man. That people who voted for leave had no idea what type of terms they were voting for. That 16 and 17 year olds, the generation who will have to pay for brexit, were denied the vote. That 98.5% of Gibraltar and the majority of Scotland and Ulster were ignored thereby jepardising the Union that Tories hold so dear. That brexiters cried 'undemocratic' when people called for a confirmatory referendum.
26.5% of the population voted for a brexit that most didn't understand the consequences of. Can any brexity posters here honestly claim that they voted in the expectation that it would take 54 months and counting to partly conclude, causing massive divisions within households, within England, within the UK and with our greatest friends and neighbours on the continent? Not to mention the financial cost now and hereafter.
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Remainers caused the delay in leaving.
 
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AgentofAlnwick said:
Apparently this referendum was the only democratic vote in history.

No matter that vote leave was based on populist lies. Tell me which vote didn’t.

That it only took place because of Tory infighting and was called by cowardly and arrogant man. Not sure what that has to do with it.

That people who voted for leave had no idea what type of terms they were voting for. But all the Remainers did? I knew what the position was going to be and wouldn’t insult those that voted opposite to me by saying they voted differently simply due to their ignorance.<doh>

That 16 and 17 year olds, the generation who will have to pay for brexit, were denied the vote. As has been the case in all democratic votes ever held with one exception being the Scottish vote for independence when the Krankies knew they were losing without it but still lost.

That 98.5% of Gibraltar and the majority of Scotland and Ulster were ignored thereby jepardising the Union that Tories hold so dear. It’s called democracy. Everyone agrees beforehand that the majority vote wins.

That brexiters cried 'undemocratic' when people called for a confirmatory referendum. Because it would have been. There’s never been a further confirmatory vote after a General Election before the winning Party took power.

26.5% of the population voted for a brexit that most didn't understand the consequences of. Says who? Based on what?

Can any brexity posters here honestly claim that they voted in the expectation that it would take 54 months and counting to partly conclude, causing massive divisions within households, within England, within the UK and with our greatest friends and neighbours on the continent? Not to mention the financial cost now and hereafter. I voted to remain so can’t comment but I would guess, yes.
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Whataboutery doesn't cut it. The implications of leaving were, and will continue to be, immense. Economists and politicians of all persuasions knew this - even if 90% of the electorate didn't.
 
Darren Peacock's Ponytail said:
Remainers caused the delay in leaving.
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That’s completely untrue. Had the actual Govt all voted for Mays deal, it’d have gone through.

Only the Brextremist ERG chose to vote against it, as it wasn’t ‘Brexity’ enough.

Blaming those who said from the off this would be a bucket of ****, now it’s become clear it’s a bucket of ****, is a bit rich like.
 
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AgentofAlnwick said:
The E.U isn't perfect - what is? - but it's been a great success overall.
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Tell that to the Southern European countries which barely have an economy anymore, tell that to the countries where the Euro has crippled them. Tell that to the countries which have lost their identity and can't even change their own laws without threats of sanctions. Tell that to the countries which are swamped by immigration. Tell that to the countries which are struggling to get passed the red tape which holds them down. Tell that to a lot of EU countries which has very poor employment rates for young people.

Yeah we haven't had a war in 75 years, but there is a huge amount of resentment and anger bubbling under the surface and we can freely travel through Europe (in reality how many people does that actually benefit).
 
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Tobes said:
It’s very apt that the entire ****show looks like it’s going to come down to ****ing FISH. An industry that makes up 0.1% of our economy and of that, we export circa 70% of it to the actual EU <doh> But they’re seemingly so buried in the entire BS ideology that they’re going to crash our economy for it by leaving with no deal.
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It's not about the fish, it's about taking back what belongs to us, it's about freedom and being able to control our waters, something which the UK has thrived on for hundreds of years.

How is it right that EU vessels are allowed to attack our vessels without any sanctions, without any payback, why are we allowed to be bullied in our own territory?

If its only 0. 01 % of the economy, why are the French and Dutch so concerned about it? Why are they panicking and stating that it will ruin their coastal communities if they no longer have access to our waters? Why are they so adamant that they won't give us a deal, if Fish aren't really that important to them, why are our fishing communities allowed to be ruined like they have been for decades, we used to have some of the finest ports in the world, now they are run down hell holes like Grimsby and Boston.
 
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Tobes said:
That’s completely untrue. Had the actual Govt all voted for Mays deal, it’d have gone through.

Only the Brextremist ERG chose to vote against it, as it wasn’t ‘Brexity’ enough.

Blaming those who said from the off this would be a bucket of ****, now it’s become clear it’s a bucket of ****, is a bit rich like.
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Let’s ignore that Mays deal was a crock of s*** eh. May along with most of parliament were against Brexit so they either fought against it or tried to bring in brino.
 
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AgentofAlnwick said:
Apparently this referendum was the only democratic vote in history. No matter that vote leave was based on populist lies. That it only took place because of Tory infighting and was called by cowardly and arrogant man. That people who voted for leave had no idea what type of terms they were voting for. That 16 and 17 year olds, the generation who will have to pay for brexit, were denied the vote. That 98.5% of Gibraltar and the majority of Scotland and Ulster were ignored thereby jepardising the Union that Tories hold so dear. That brexiters cried 'undemocratic' when people called for a confirmatory referendum.
26.5% of the population voted for a brexit that most didn't understand the consequences of. Can any brexity posters here honestly claim that they voted in the expectation that it would take 54 months and counting to partly conclude, causing massive divisions within households, within England, within the UK and with our greatest friends and neighbours on the continent? Not to mention the financial cost now and hereafter.
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Remind us which votes have included 16 and 17 year olds.
 
Rafman said:
Tell that to the Southern European countries which barely have an economy anymore, tell that to the countries where the Euro has crippled them. Tell that to the countries which have lost their identity and can't even change their own laws without threats of sanctions. Tell that to the countries which are swamped by immigration. Tell that to the countries which are struggling to get passed the red tape which holds them down. Tell that to a lot of EU countries which has very poor employment rates for young people.

Yeah we haven't had a war in 75 years, but there is a huge amount of resentment and anger bubbling under the surface and we can freely travel through Europe (in reality how many people does that actually benefit).
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Much of your passionate retort relates to places like Greece and southern Italy. I was referring to the UK referendum and a general view of the E.U. Regardless, the 2019 polls for these two countries (which are among the most hostile to the E.U) were Greece 53/43 in favour and Italy 58/38 in favour. Results suggest they very much wish to remain even if they have suffered economically in the past decade.
Of course sanction measures apply in E.U states if violating regulations. Are you suggesting the abolition of beaurocracy and red tape? It's a necessary evil for any country, let alone 27.
Freedom of movement and immigration are two distinct issues. Immigration for economic or refuge-seeking reasons is not a problem created by the E.U. If anything, the UK has played a part in creating the instability in regions like the Middle East.
 
magpie290761 said:
Remind us which votes have included 16 and 17 year olds.
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My point was that a referendum of such great importance that was going to affect that age group more than someone aged, say 80, should have been included in that electorate. Just because it's not been done before doesn't make it right - history has shown that over and over.
In my opinion, 16 and 17 year olds should have been included.
 
AgentofAlnwick said:
My point was that a referendum of such great importance that was going to affect that age group more than someone aged, say 80, should have been included in that electorate. Just because it's not been done before doesn't make it right - history has shown that over and over.
In my opinion, 16 and 17 year olds should have been included.
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All votes are important for the future but voters need to be mature enough to make that vote. At 16 and 17 they are not which is exactly why they didn’t get a vote and haven’t before. Using your argument on how much you might be affected then surely you should have a vote as long as you are old enough to make a Mark with a pencil. A line has to be drawn and it’s drawn at the point you are considered to be an adult which is 18 and young enough.
 
AgentofAlnwick said:
My point was that a referendum of such great importance that was going to affect that age group more than someone aged, say 80, should have been included in that electorate. Just because it's not been done before doesn't make it right - history has shown that over and over.
In my opinion, 16 and 17 year olds should have been included.
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Why?

I was never included in the original vote of joining the Common Market, but I was still stuck in it for 40+ years of my future life, without ever having a say if I agreed with it or it's later mutations.
 
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brb said:
Why?

I was never included in the original vote of joining the Common Market, but I was still stuck in it for 40+ years of my future life, without ever having a say if I agreed with it or it's later mutations.
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Sounds like you're arguing for regular referendums on the E.U. 2026 may be a goer as it'd be a decade since the previous one.
 
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