Off Topic Coronavirus

[kiwiqpr]

I have no idea why there is such mistrust.
Most of you will have had more than 10- 20 vaccination in your life time.
Chicken pox, tetanus, diptheria, polio, MMR, TB some will have hepatitis vaccines, some encephalitis, some of your children will have had vaccination against cervical cancer.
Some will have had flu vaccination.

These vaccination have saved millions of lives.

Sorry I do not understand the mistrust

how long did all these other vaccines take till they were thought safe
maybe some are worried about the speed from invention to acceptance for use
can we give all the non protected the rest of the vaccines at the same time
cure the world of everything

 

[Woodyhoopleson]

I’ve had tetanus, yellow fever and whooping cough that I know of. Never got the bcg at school for some reason.

I think the mistrust comes from the speed of the rollout and the fact that whilst most people are protected as intended by certain vaccines, many have been seriously injured. Also the indemnity against liability of the producers of the vaccine and the talk of coercive measures against those who choose not to take it.

Also, the billions of pounds that these Pharma companies have apparently been fined for damages (and fraud against Pfizer, did I hear?).

I heard someone yesterday who suffers from mild MS telling how she used to be able to buy an off the shelf anti histamine which would calm her symptoms. The product disappeared from the shelves and came back to market some months later at hugely inflated cost under a different name, the only difference being the addition of a herb.

Just theorising as to why there may be mistrust.

 

[Star of David Bardsley]

Also, the billions of pounds that these Pharma companies have apparently been fined for damages (and fraud against Pfizer, did I hear?).

I heard someone yesterday who suffers from mild MS telling how she used to be able to buy an off the shelf anti histamine which would calm her symptoms. The product disappeared from the shelves and came back to market some months later at hugely inflated cost under a different name, the only difference being the addition of a herb.

Just theorising as to why there may be mistrust.

It’s probably 1% that, which is fair enough, and 99% being influenced by Gary down the pub sharing a meme on Facebook.

 

[colognehornet]

I have no idea why there is such mistrust.
Most of you will have had more than 10- 20 vaccination in your life time.
Chicken pox, tetanus, diptheria, polio, MMR, TB some will have hepatitis vaccines, some encephalitis, some of your children will have had vaccination against cervical cancer.
Some will have had flu vaccination.

These vaccination have saved millions of lives.

Sorry I do not understand the mistrust

The whole safety bubble we have lived in for the last 50 years has been based on vaccines, antibiotics and clean water Beth. I wish we could transport the anti vaccine brigade to the 19th Century for a while.

 

[qprbeth]

Understood.

I think it was the chief medical officer of Moderna who said they don’t yet know if vaccinated people can still carry and transmit, or maybe they just haven’t collected that data yet.

What about immunity? If people who have had it or have cross immunity from other Coronaviruses, what does that mean? Can they be tested for T cell immunity?

If new, viruses, unrecognised by the immune system multiply quicker than we can defeat them, how did we ever develop an immune system, given that we had to come into contact with every virus for the first time at some point?

The people on the trials are being tested for T cells immunity.

You ask why new viruses don't always kill us if it takes time to raise antibodies.
1. They often do. For example Ebola in West Africa...and in history Chickenpox brought to the new world by the conquistadors did for the Aztecs...where it was only minimally fatal in Europe

2 Many viruses are mutation from viruses we have seen before and we have a bit of an immunity that slows the virus down long enough for the immune system to get its act together

3. Many viruses don't kill you...It is looking as though Covid19 actually is in that category. If you have a fully functional immune system, you will probably be okay....but an old or tired immune system or an underlying disease ...or a natural mutation in a immune protein involved in the inflammatory process and you are in trouble

 

[qprbeth]

Anyone hear Prof/Dr Jonathan Van Tam on BBC Breakfast boy was he impressive. He is now my favourite scientist ( Over Witty, Valance and that woman who was so bad that they seem to have lost her behind the sofa)

He explained everything well and clearly. Stunning communicator

 

[ELLERS]

We’ll go for a pint once he’s been vaccinated.

I'm not having that rat testicle one.

 

[Star of David Bardsley]

Anyone hear Prof/Dr Jonathan Van Tam on BBC Breakfast boy was he impressive. He is now my favourite scientist ( Over Witty, Valance and that woman who was so bad that they seem to have lost her behind the sofa)

He explained everything well and clearly. Stunning communicator

I enjoyed his penalty shootout analogy.

 

[ELLERS]

Anyone hear Prof/Dr Jonathan Van Tam on BBC Breakfast boy was he impressive. He is now my favourite scientist ( Over Witty, Valance and that woman who was so bad that they seem to have lost her behind the sofa)

He explained everything well and clearly. Stunning communicator

I said a few weeks ago (or was it months...who knows in Covid days) that JVT was a cool and reassuring head. Sadly it won't be long before the usual mob start calling him a government puppet and discrediting him. I liked his analogy to this vaccine being like a train... let's hope for all our sakes its not a SW train.

 

[Quite Possibly Raving]

This, on the politics of the vaccine which we discussed yesterday, is very good:

https://www.theatlantic.com/international/archive/2020/12/britain-vaccine-brexit-covid/617280/

 

[sb_73]

This, on the politics of the vaccine which we discussed yesterday, is very good:

https://www.theatlantic.com/international/archive/2020/12/britain-vaccine-brexit-covid/617280/

That’s a very good article. I used to have a subscription to The Atlantic, but it had a disastrous app update which made it very irritating to look at. Shame, because there was something interesting added daily, though it was we very obsessed with Trump.

 

[Woodyhoopleson]

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Mike Yeadon talking to Julia Hartley-Brewer. He has no issues with safety of the vaccine, but questions the need for a mass rollout as he continues to believe that there is significant community immunity.

Annoyingly, she didn’t ask him about the notion of non vulnerables taking the shot to protect the vulnerable, as Beth alluded to last night. I’d like to know his thoughts on that.

 

[sb_73]

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Mike Yeadon talking to Julia Hartley-Brewer. He has no issues with safety of the vaccine, but questions the need for a mass rollout as he continues to believe that there is significant community immunity.

Annoyingly, she didn’t ask him about the notion of non vulnerables taking the shot to protect the vulnerable, as Beth alluded to last night. I’d like to know his thoughts on that.

How does he measure ‘community immunity’ and how is this different to ‘herd immunity’ which we know has never been achieved without the help of a vaccine?

 

[Frome-Ranger]

Anyone hear Prof/Dr Jonathan Van Tam on BBC Breakfast boy was he impressive. He is now my favourite scientist ( Over Witty, Valance and that woman who was so bad that they seem to have lost her behind the sofa)

He explained everything well and clearly. Stunning communicator

Yeah its good he's back on the scene, he disappeared for a bit after sublety called out the Cummings thing for what it was.

 

[Woodyhoopleson]

How does he measure ‘community immunity’ and how is this different to ‘herd immunity’ which we know has never been achieved without the help of a vaccine?

Scroll to 9mins 10secs, he starts talking about cross immunity from other corona viruses. He says this is not controversial, that several papers have been published backing up that position and that PHE acknowledges it.

He then describes how certain areas were hit hard in the spring, but that they are now not the areas suffering, but that areas that got off lightly in spring have higher case numbers now.

 

[ELLERS]

Wasn't they told in the 50's/60's that Thalidomide was safe?

 

[ELLERS]

I wish we could transport the anti vaccine brigade to the 19th Century for a while.

If they did they would find it hard to breath... or is it the other way around with all the air pollution?

 

[ELLERS]

I think the mistrust comes from the speed of the rollout

I always thought that clinical trials took 10-20 yrs?

 

[qprbeth]

I always thought that clinical trials took 10-20 yrs?

Depends what trial is and numbers required

A trial that looks at acute reduction in blood pressure in healthy people. Could take a day
It would take a month to put the ethics together and find the people. A day to do the tests. A month to analyse


But if you wanted to test how a drug taken by your mother in pregnancy effects your fertility or your childrens fertility could take 20 -30 years.

Horses for courses Ellers

 

[sb_73]

Scroll to 9mins 10secs, he starts talking about cross immunity from other corona viruses. He says this is not controversial, that several papers have been published backing up that position and that PHE acknowledges it.

He then describes how certain areas were hit hard in the spring, but that they are now not the areas suffering, but that areas that got off lightly in spring have higher case numbers now.

Yeah, listened to most of it. Good points, but there are places, like Birmingham, which were hit hard in both waves, likewise Kent, and it could be argued that the lower rates in London are down to the lockdown measures. I think we’ve discussed before how difficult it is to attribute trends to a single definitive cause. Probably a mix of lots of things. I’m glad he was clear about his true areas of expertise and his past position in Pfizer after the introduction from the ghastly Hartley Brewer.