1. Log in now to remove adverts - no adverts at all to registered members!

Off Topic The Deep State

Discussion in 'The Premier League' started by Hoddle is a god, Nov 10, 2020.

?

Does the Deep State exist?

  1. Yes

    50.0%
  2. No

    50.0%
  1. Big Ern

    Big Ern Lord, Master, Guru & Emperor

    Joined:
    Jan 28, 2011
    Messages:
    25,542
    Likes Received:
    20,220
    So what is this deep state? Don't tel me it's a bunch of business men and elected officials working hand-in-hand for their own ends, as that's a news story as old as civilization, and not news at all
     
    #221
    Archers Road and PINKIE like this.
  2. Peej

    Peej Fabio Borini Lover

    Joined:
    Feb 25, 2013
    Messages:
    29,152
    Likes Received:
    15,329
    Deep state is also all the researcher, Drs and people who know about the cancer cure.

    but are all kept quiet.
     
    #222
    Sucky likes this.
  3. Big Ern

    Big Ern Lord, Master, Guru & Emperor

    Joined:
    Jan 28, 2011
    Messages:
    25,542
    Likes Received:
    20,220
    If he does that he'll look even more like Putin's bitch than his current actions do.
     
    #223
  4. PINKIE

    PINKIE Wurzel Gummidge

    Joined:
    Jan 24, 2011
    Messages:
    123,377
    Likes Received:
    71,632
    cba to read all of this, suffice to say that the 'Deep State' as Trump has coined it, is pure bollocks. That's him acting like a **** because Govt officials won't run roughshod over democratic principles, regardless of who's in power.

    In the UK we have a civil service and permanent secretaries, these people are crucial to the smooth running of Govt, again whoever is in power, regardless of party political yearnings.

    The idea that the Govt run a secret shadow govt is pure fantasy. They can't even run a transparent govt properly, let alone a secondary one in secret.

    Do billionaires and influential financiers control policy making, you bet they do. They lobby hard to influence ministers and they throw a lot of money and effort to make sure policy is designed to protect their interests.
     
    #224
    Archers Road, Tobes and Big Ern like this.
  5. PleaseNotPoll

    PleaseNotPoll Well-Known Member
    Forum Moderator

    Joined:
    May 31, 2011
    Messages:
    96,169
    Likes Received:
    55,652
    No, it didn't: https://www.axios.com/trump-associa...ons-206295a1-5abc-4573-be25-4da19d9adcc9.html

    Carter Page was involved with a Russian spy ring before Trump even hired him.
    They called him an idiot on intercepted messages.
    Paul Manafort worked with Ukraine's Russian puppet before he got ousted by the locals and did a runner to Rostov.
    Trump still hired him.
     
    #225
    Tobes and PINKIE like this.
  6. Peej

    Peej Fabio Borini Lover

    Joined:
    Feb 25, 2013
    Messages:
    29,152
    Likes Received:
    15,329

    Yeah, now I’m not one to wade in with an opinion on this.
    But when you want to look at the flip side. Cannabis/cannabis derived products can help/cure. But Drs are not trained/paid to promote.....

    big Pharma holds them back.....

    the government can’t make money......

    absolute bollocks. They can just legalise/control through pharmaceutical companies and licence the researchers and development to take in the money IF it worked. Then sell the rights for generic manufacture/supply once required.

    Aspirin is a natural derived medicine

    out of the 250-300 medicines the WHO see as crucial/basic/essential, 10% are plant based/derived.
    There is a name for alternative medicine, it’s called medicine!


    About 12 years ago I did a lot of deathbed desperation searching for ways that would ‘heal’ my failed kidneys, saw lots of claims for natural remedies/cures.

    and let me tell you, if you believe and pray hard enough, that **** still won’t help.
     
    #226
    Diego, Big Ern, Sucky and 2 others like this.
  7. Treble

    Treble Keyser Söze

    Joined:
    Feb 5, 2011
    Messages:
    57,183
    Likes Received:
    47,997
    The government won't legalise it though. And I appreciate the doctors won't promote it but there's no mature discussion with patients which I saw. It seemed more snobbish and condescending, even scoffing at the suggestion... to someone who as you described was at deathbed desperation.

    I agree with the rest, there's definitely enough snake oil merchants out there as well.
     
    #227
  8. brb

    brb CR250

    Joined:
    Nov 20, 2013
    Messages:
    74,390
    Likes Received:
    71,581
    I think I saw you say something about your kidneys once before, can I ask, are you on dialysis?
     
    #228
  9. Peej

    Peej Fabio Borini Lover

    Joined:
    Feb 25, 2013
    Messages:
    29,152
    Likes Received:
    15,329
    Big pharma is a right bastard.

    Thankfully they used natural sources to perfect anti rejection medication that saves thousands every year. Allows less well matched renal transplants to work and last longer. More heart transplants, lung, liver and kidney....small and large bowels, pancreas.....
     
    #229
    Sucky and Treble like this.
  10. Peej

    Peej Fabio Borini Lover

    Joined:
    Feb 25, 2013
    Messages:
    29,152
    Likes Received:
    15,329
    How did you see the interactions with Dr/patient?
     
    #230

  11. PleaseNotPoll

    PleaseNotPoll Well-Known Member
    Forum Moderator

    Joined:
    May 31, 2011
    Messages:
    96,169
    Likes Received:
    55,652
    #231
    BobbyD, Treble and PINKIE like this.
  12. Peej

    Peej Fabio Borini Lover

    Joined:
    Feb 25, 2013
    Messages:
    29,152
    Likes Received:
    15,329
    not anymore, transplanted and have a suppressed immune system from natural derived medicines(believe one started as an anti fungal)that work due to control and long standing research.

    dialysis is another big pharma cash cow if you believe the US patients and ‘cure’ salesmen.

    wouldn’t wish dialysis on my worst enemy, it’s no life, it’s ****ing horrible. But it keeps you going and gives transplant hope.

    Lance Armstrong doors and won 7 TdF titles using EPO, I took 4 times his Weekly dose and couldn’t walk up stairs.
     
    #232
    Treble, Tobes and brb like this.
  13. Treble

    Treble Keyser Söze

    Joined:
    Feb 5, 2011
    Messages:
    57,183
    Likes Received:
    47,997
    Because it was my mrs mate.

    To add to what you posted about using natural sources to perfect anti-rejection medication, the pharmas do amazing things, save lives and you're right it should be recognised <ok>

    I think there are other things such as stem cell transplants and general immunotherapy which is also ground-breaking work which will quickly save thousands as well. The only problem is, the UK seems to lag behind most countries in terms of delivering it... although tbf you have to pay through the nose everywhere else. Having said that, in a lot of cases you can't get it in the UK even if you want to pay for it.
     
    #233
    Tobes likes this.
  14. PINKIE

    PINKIE Wurzel Gummidge

    Joined:
    Jan 24, 2011
    Messages:
    123,377
    Likes Received:
    71,632
    That's why things like Cannabis need legalising imo. So that their derivatives used in health care products can be properly evaluated and licenced. The UK has got a good track record of ensuring that medication is rigorously tested and licenced for safe and effective use. I know it costs a shed load of money to do, and it's only the large corps that end up being able to afford to manufacture and distribute these things. But it cuts out the snake oil salesmen and have a go herbalists.

    Trouble is, some folk are now so paranoid about pharma that they treat all of it with suspicion and mistrust, despite reaping the benefits of decades of testing and safe practice. You've got people now who are scared ****less about the new Covid vaccines coming online, but are more than willing to take a punt on some untested herbal remedies they buy off ebay.

    Or those still who are convinced that a new vaccine is designed to kill them, but have spent the last two decades happily buying bags of dust for £20 off of blokes with no teeth called Kev in the car park of dodgy pubs <laugh>
     
    #234
    Last edited: Nov 11, 2020
    Sucky, Treble and Tobes like this.
  15. brb

    brb CR250

    Joined:
    Nov 20, 2013
    Messages:
    74,390
    Likes Received:
    71,581
    So what caused you to lose both kidneys, was it when you was young?
     
    #235
  16. Treble

    Treble Keyser Söze

    Joined:
    Feb 5, 2011
    Messages:
    57,183
    Likes Received:
    47,997
    #236
    aberdude and PleaseNotPoll like this.
  17. Peej

    Peej Fabio Borini Lover

    Joined:
    Feb 25, 2013
    Messages:
    29,152
    Likes Received:
    15,329
    never knew I had a problem, went away with the Mrs for a two week in Mexico on it.

    came back feeling a bit worn down, few weeks passed and still not great. Went to GO and BP was a bit high, took some blood.
    Was playing football with guys from work on a Friday evening, blowing out my arse (spent spring/summer training for GNR so was fit)

    Mrs comes driving up, said Drs after me. So sat in Drs at 6:45PM in sweaty football gear and he is telling me to take this letter to A&E and they will sort me out.
    An hour later I’m on a renal ward discussing my dialysis options at Sheffield Northern General. Have a genetic condition that breaks down the small filters in the kidney.

    ****ed!
     
    #237
    Tobes and brb like this.
  18. aberdude

    aberdude Well-Known Member

    Joined:
    Feb 11, 2012
    Messages:
    24,477
    Likes Received:
    8,440
    Firstly some religious groups openly parade its doors open some on the other hand are well underground.

    Secondly the deep state doesn't hide from no fkr as they know an apathetic public will Bury heads(look around you) and only a minority will call it out who then get bullied into boxes of so called racists and conspiracy fake news lunatics.

    Some call you anti semitic for calling Israel and its right-wing ideology an abomination an a crime against humanity ......this use of silencing includes Jewish people who don't agree with the atrocities that have been made against Palestinians in thy name.
     
    #238
    Treble likes this.
  19. Treble

    Treble Keyser Söze

    Joined:
    Feb 5, 2011
    Messages:
    57,183
    Likes Received:
    47,997
    I think both the points you made are spot on. I'd rather a robust and stringent process for ensuring firstly the R & D ensures the medicine is going to be effective and then the medicine itself is the most effective it can be, including managing how it is administered.

    And on your second point, it's also about the middle-class vote. Don't want to be the ones who legalised drugs!
     
    #239
  20. Peej

    Peej Fabio Borini Lover

    Joined:
    Feb 25, 2013
    Messages:
    29,152
    Likes Received:
    15,329

    You should see my tax and NI mate. I ****ing pay for it that’s for sure.
    The U.K. doesn’t hold back, but it’s trying to do the best it can. I have had world class treatment and care.

    natural remedies/treatments when correctly controlled are proven. As I said, 10% of key medicines in world are derived from plants
     
    #240
    Tobes and Treble like this.

Share This Page