Coronavirus

Of course it won't, we'll learn nothing and go back to normal. There might be a Jab for this one and that's it.

 

We seem to have handled it competently this time around, what has happened elsewhere is, in my opinion, down to incompetence.

 

The only people that need a jab are those who are vulnerable, old and old/sick in the short term

The rest of us need to get it and become immune, which will protect the old and sick from it from then on

I shudder to think of a future where human immunity all comes from a syringe. What happens to those deemed not worthy of that injection for whatever reasons, if we had that situation now, we know who in North Korea would get it, and who wouldnt. The Chinese would have used same method to lower its population

**** that

 

Yeah but there will be an all saving golden wrapped jab for the leaders of the world to present.

 

A vaccine stockpile for the old and vulnerable to COVID present and for future need. That's about 99% less $$$ than vaccines for almost a whole population present and future stockpile.

The later is eye watering levels of money especially globally.

As if these companies will not be using all means at their disposal to push for "covid vaccines for all" because to deny that would be to deny they are corporations that want to make as much money as possible.


Plus the gov advisories are always a revolving door between corporate and politics as we all know already
So expect that sort of push

 

There’s no evidence that natural immunity lasts beyond a few months at best after having this virus. As there’s numerous stories of reinfection.

Equally there’s not yet evidence that the numerous different vaccines under test will deliver that either.

Herd immunity is a myth though, it’s never been truly achieved without a vaccine - ever.

 

To be fair to the rest of the world outside the what, 5 countries that didn't have a calamitous response and didn't wait for WHO advice, the delayed reaction caused a knee jerk response that was lagging actual events by about 6 weeks.

There is evidence this Virus was already out before 2020 maybe as early as Oct Nov last year
In Dec 2019 Taiwan told the WHO they have seen human to human transmission, on Jan 14 2020 WHO said no evidence (WHO does not recognise Taiwan, who is not allowed into it, because China reckons Taiwan is theres and WHO "doesn't want to get involved in politics")

This put the world at a disavantage

Plus Chinese covid death numbers are bollocks. Look at London, and Look at Wuhan, people are way more a vector to spread in Wuhan than London, the wet markets and all that ****. No ****in way they had a couple of thousand deaths. So anyway China's concealment meant this got out before anyone even knew.

The media drove a public panic, by initially showing images of people falling over in China (which portrayed it as being so bad that people were just dropping in the streets, which was utterly false and dangerous) and they kept reporting over and over "panic buying" which caused a real panic buying situation nationally, they were showing items "running out" when there was only a slight lag in supply from the warehouses because the demand exceeded the weekly delivery schedules, that was grossly irresponsible

You had other media saying it's not as bad as the flu. Causing even more confusion in the public
WHO says masks dont work (to try save PPE for medical staff, they recently admitted this) then said they do work.
(there is still no evidence they actually are effective at all) BUT WEAR ONE ANYWAY JUST IN CASE

The public fear, hiked up to the max by the media, and the absolutely bogus SAGE modeling (they gave their model to Microsoft to fix and in two months they couldn't fix it, Senior google engineers said the model was a piece of ****, Neil Ferguson built it himself, HOLY ****!) really drove the gov and institutions into panicked reactionary mode in the early stages while politicians viewed economy through the career lens of course which delayed reaction further imo

That modelling and the media driven panic had a knockon effect on the very people who see everything through a lense of their career and position.. politicians.

Then the tragic comedy skit started.

 

I agree, we lose the anti bodies, I've been keeping up on it, Antibodies are not the only sign of immunity it may be.
A new study from Karolinska Institutet and Karolinska University Hospital shows that many people with mild or asymptomatic COVID-19 demonstrate so-called T-cell-mediated immunity to the new coronavirus, even if they have not tested positively for antibodies. According to the researchers, this means that public immunity is probably higher than antibody tests suggest. The article has been published in the esteemed scientific journal Cell.
https://news.ki.se/immunity-to-covid-19-is-probably-higher-than-tests-have-shown

Very good news if this is a valid and replicated finding



As for "herd immunity is a myth" Herd immunity is a topic that is an actual real scientific debate, with much research and many arguments within that research community. Calling it a "myth" is a misrepresentation and contrary to fairly well understood science in biological evolution of not just humans

Though I am wondering if we think of herd immunity in the same way or context?

 

Or tow put it another way, we wouldn't have evolved immune systems if herd immunity was a myth

 

T cell immunity doesn’t offer any guarantee of it being long term either though. It’s literally an issue that will only be proven one way or another over time.

My comment about herd immunity directly relates to those who are trying to peddle the myth that once 70-80% of the population have had the virus and thus transmission rates drop as a direct result of the virus not being able to easily find a vulnerable host, then that’s that. As it patently isn’t, as that relies on 2 things, 1 being the natural immunity being lasting, as discussed, and 2, it’s literally never been achieved without the aid of a vaccine - ever.

You can go back to the Black Death in the C14th for an example of this. On its first appearance it wiped out circa half of the population. Those fortunate enough to survive it, had the dubious pleasure of watching their offspring die from it, when it reoccurred 20 years later, when it wiped out a further 15% of the population. It continued to reoccur sporadically for 300 years, as herd immunity was never truly achieved, as immunity isn’t passed from one generation to the next, and it doesn’t come with a lifelong guarantee.

 

Look I'm no epidemiologist but even I knew there was something happening at the end January so why didn't governments take action?

 

I did say nothing is certain, I am saying antibody tests report an incomplete data picture, which is less than helpful.
It also means that T cell immunity also appears to last longer than antibody immunity. We'll have to wait on more research to see how long ect

The black death was a cold driven famine and starvation plague that onset so dramatically and fast relatively speaking (and burned through as many as 200 million in 4 years) and had such a high mortality rate, no one could even be treated, it was the 1300s in a time where people's immune systems were also compromised by malnutrition, living conditions were awful and a time where you could lose your kid to infections as a norm

Comparing that to COVID and how we'd actually try a herd immunity plan now would be comparing apples to the sun.

Herd immunity with COVID in 2020 is something that can and is discussed as a matter of science and policy

Herd immunity and Bubonic plague in 2020 would not be something discussed as matter of either of the former.

 

@Tobes While I am sitting here typing, my daughter is here with the sniffles, so she cant go to school, and it's in the back of my mind festering "does she have covid?" 30 years of smokers lungs making me paranoid

 

Has the clear political divide ruined Britain's old "lets all muck-in together" attitude?

Or is that just a thing of the simpler past?

 

that has certainly never existed in my lifetime from what i could see .

 

In my post I referred to the moment when it came for career politicians try fathom and calculate the economic v social issues all filtered through the lens of "how do we come out of this unscathed personally" because economic damage had much longer lasting implications in their eyes at that time (if you go by the previous outbreaks, Swine Bird mad cow ebola) plus all of their backers dont like losing money.

This caused a brief paralysis imo. Overreact and get slaughtered, under-react and get slaughtered.
Mixed messaging also didn't help, from herd immunity to EVERYONE IS GOING TO DIE and everything inbetween.

 

Me too, I see it in those TV shows that show Ireland in the 50s 60s and 70s.

As soon as we got enough stuff to be stuck up our own arses and not need anyone else, that was that it seems. Oh and being constantly told we cant trust anyone

There is no **** terror fear here where every parent thinks there's a **** around every corner.
I I'm not missing that aspect of back home in Ireland

 

This idea that the "vulnerable" could be shielded and everyone goes on as normal never seems to address one thing the numbers . My estimate is it is an absolute minimum of 20% and it is difficult to see how that number can be effectively shielded - not that any proponent has suggested how it would be done .

 

pretty sure it is a myth though the war years would have been the closest for obvious reasons .

 

I think you'd need to go through the demographics and combine that with health data, who's got family and so on. 20% is far too high I am guessing, uneducated guess