Off Topic The Politics Thread

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Should the UK remain a part of the EU or leave?

  • Stay in

    Votes: 56 47.9%

  • Get out

    Votes: 61 52.1%
  • Total voters
    117
  • Poll closed .
Quite Possibly Raving said:
If his explicit aim is to "cripple" trade between NI and GB, then of course that would be bad faith. Do I choose to believe an unattributed quote in a very pro-Brexit, pro-Govt newspaper over the written facts? Not without further proof.

By contrast, what the UK Government is doing is unarguably bad faith - written in proposed legislation, with a Secretary of State admitting this is a breach of international law.
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It's reported in more than one newspaper. In my view, it would be justification for what the UK is doing.

Even if he did not mention ban, but threatened to use the EU's discretion to put tariffs on all UK goods coming to NI, that would be bad faith too, since the discretion was intended to apply to "at risk" products and although this is not defined, it was clearly intended to be an exception not the rule.
 
Goldhawk-Road said:
It's reported in more than one newspaper. In my view, it would be justification for what the UK is doing.

Even if he did not mention ban, but threatened to use the EU's discretion to put tariffs on all UK goods coming to NI, that would be bad faith too, since the discretion was intended to apply to "at risk" products and although this is not defined, it was clearly intended to be an exception not the rule.
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Great, good to know that unattributed quotes in pro-Government newspapers are enough justification for breaking international law. I wish I was surprised at the completely ridiculous contortion, but there we go.
 
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Goldhawk-Road said:
The fact that the EU, through Barnier, is using the bare boned provisions in the WA as a weapon, threatening to damage UK's internal trade, shows a marked lack of good faith. If this goes to court or arbitration, no doubt the UK will produce evidence of Barnier's threats.

Barnier has caused this storm. He needs to be sacked, and Boris needs to speak to Merkel and Macron on a cut-the-crap basis. There will nevertheless be two huge areas of disagreement, EU standards and fishing, to resolve
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And johnson needs to be sacked too for signing something he negotiated but couldnt be arsed reading.
 
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rangercol said:
Exactly.
Remainers are using this as yet another stick to beat brexit with.
They'll never let it go.
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I think it's gone beyond that to be honest mate. A lot of remainers I know have truly lost interest in it all. They are just watching the government lurch from one **** up to another. This is a brexiteers doing and problem, nobody else's.
 
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Quite Possibly Raving said:
Yes, the first article you link to explains precisely what was given away in the Withdrawal Agreement, signed by Boris. That was always going to mean customs checks on goods like food and medicines, which creates barriers for GB / NI trade. That's literally the deal we signed up for. And now that's being spun as "veiled threats" because Cummings, Boris et al want to whip up fury about this rather than have people realise this is precisely what they signed up to.

"Northern Ireland will enter into a customs union with the EU, while the rest of the UK will not, after the end of the Brexit transition period on 31 December.

This means that some goods – including agricultural goods – travelling between Great Britain and Northern Ireland will be subject to customs checks and export declarations."

Useful idiots seems like an entirely appropriate descriptor for those who fall for the spin instead of looking at what is written in black and white in the treaty we signed.
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Exactly this. Some people cant see the woods for the trees unfortunately
 
bobmid said:
And johnson needs to be sacked too for signing something he negotiated but couldnt be arsed reading.
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The WA is a bare bones agreement. It relies on the good faith of both parties in implementing it. There seems a marked lack of good faith from Michel Barnier. Presumably he knows he personally is in the last chance saloon and could be sidelined, and he is getting desperate
 
rangercol said:
The only fantasists are those still trying desperately to find a way to reverse the referendum result.
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Col, seriously what is going through your head pal. Brexit is happening. This isnt about remainers wanting the decision reversed, it's about an incompetent PM negotiating an agreement, signing it and telling us it's the bees knees, then he actually looks at the ****ing thing and decides it's not! Where does a remain voter come into that???
 
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Goldhawk-Road said:
The WA is a bare bones agreement. It relies on the good faith of both parties in implementing it. There seems a marked lack of good faith from Michel Barnier. Presumably he knows he personally is in the last chance saloon and could be sidelined, and he is getting desperate
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Oh I thought it was a signed agreement by two parties. Silly me.
 
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bobmid said:
Of course you can and usually get fined or punished in doing so, not to mention that people would think twice about agreeing anything with you in the future!
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Right, so the EU have breached the agreement by lack of good faith. They're in trouble. Incidentally, it's not the first time. They've disregarded a number of rulings against them from the WTO on steel, aluminium, Airbus etc
 
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Goldhawk-Road said:
What may have breached the WA is lack of good faith by the EU negotiators, making threats that contradict the spirit and intent of terms in the WA re exports from the UK to NI
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What threats were made and by whom? Any direct quotes regarding these? I genuinely ask mate as I've not seen any.
 
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