Coronavirus

[aberdude]

Shame you don't read, what you preach...

Professor Glover: I should put my cards on the table I am not a religious believer. I am actually not a typical subscriber to the principle of sanctity of life either, but I think that it is one value that I very well understand the pull of without it being a matter of it being commanded by God.

What I understand the secular version to be is identical to what I understand the religious version to be— namely, that there is an absolute barrier, an absolute ban, not derived from a religious source, on the intentional taking of innocent human life.

It is the same principle, and if it seems a puzzle why someone who does not believe it is God who says "Thou shalt not kill" should take that view, perhaps I could mention George Orwell—and this links back to capital punishment. George Orwell describes how, when he was in the colonial service, somewhere in the Far East—I forget exactly where but possibly Burma—he was once part of a group of men who were present at an execution.

He describes walking towards the place of the execution, the group of the guards, the officials and so on, and in the middle was the man who was to be executed. As they walked along the path there was a puddle and everybody, including the man who was about to be executed, swerved to avoid the puddle.

At that moment George Orwell suddenly had this very powerful intuitive response. He said that here we were, a group of men, walking along together, and all of our bodies were toiling away as they usually do—hearts were working, brains were working, it was all working—but in a few moments there would be one of these people less— "One life less, one world less", he said. "At that moment it came to me", as he put it, "the unspeakable wrongness of cutting off a life in full tide."

Good find.... Means little though and purely his opinion.

 

[brb]

Good find.... Means little though and purely his opinion.

 

[Archers Road]

When my Nan died - 40 years ago now - the GP told my mum he was giving her something that would make her comfortable, but which might make her sleep so comfortably that she might not wake up again. In fact, he said to my mum, I think she’ll go tonight; and she did. She was 86, had pneumonia for the 4th time, and her passing was a mercy.

The point being, doctors have been making difficult decisions for decades; centuries, even. Quite courageously in some cases, because the law isn’t always entirely clear cut either in these situations.

The something the Doc gave my Nan was called Brompton’s cocktail btw; a mixture containing Gin and Morphine. They probably used to sell that down the Dog and Duck in Victorian times.

 

[Treble]

"say the LCP was used as a justification for sedating Mrs Vine and denying her food and water."

This!

 

[aberdude]

Pacman?

 

[Commachio]

When my Nan died - 40 years ago now - the GP told my mum he was giving her something that would make her comfortable, but which might make her sleep so comfortably that she might not wake up again. In fact, he said to my mum, I think she’ll go tonight; and she did. She was 86, had pneumonia for the 4th time, and her passing was a mercy.

The point being, doctors have been making difficult decisions for decades; centuries, even. Quite courageously in some cases, because the law isn’t always entirely clear cut either in these situations.

The something the Doc gave my Nan was called Brompton’s cocktail btw; a mixture containing Gin and Morphine. They probably used to sell that down the Dog and Duck in Victorian times.

Now there's the other side...

 

[aberdude]

"say the LCP was used as a justification for sedating Mrs Vine and denying her food and water."

This!

I watched my father die that way and it's fking horrible..... He was asking for milk because he was dry mouthed.... We could only dab his lips with a little water..... Fking cruel.

 

[Archers Road]

Now there's the other side...

I don’t really have a view either way tbh. What I do know is, this was a proper family GP from the days when they used to make house calls, and he always did right by my Nan and the rest of the family.

 

[Tobes]

I don’t really have a view either way tbh. What I do know is, this was a proper family GP from the days when they used to make house calls, and he always did right by my Nan and the rest of the family.

GP house visits, when you used to have the same family quack for years - old skool.

And to think, they used to do this primarily to stop ill and potentially extremely contagious patients having to come to the surgery and risk infecting others by travelling there and infection themselves by being there.

Lob that in the paper bags, recycled bottles and milk floats folder.

 

[Solid Air]

I don’t really have a view either way tbh. What I do know is, this was a proper family GP from the days when they used to make house calls, and he always did right by my Nan and the rest of the family.

there was a case years ago when a nurse ,who was present , reported the GP for similar . He was found not guilty mainly because the family were adamant that she couldn't have wished for a more conscientious GP and that she had been begging to be put out of her misery for some time . The defence was he gave enough pain medication to remove her excruciating pain which also was enough to kill her which is allowable.
I accept this is for the best at times but it is so reliant on individuals and their beliefs / prejudices and that is the worry .

 

[Treble]

I watched my father die that way and it's fking horrible..... He was asking for milk because he was dry mouthed.... We could only dab his lips with a little water..... Fking cruel.

My experience has given me the impression that doctors and nurses who work in specialist fields where death is a common occurrence become institutionalised to it and detached from the human factor, being guided more by clinical decisions as a result of repeated past experiences, the numbers game it becomes and the almost morbid environment they work in.

Now I'll go further and say that it wouldn't surprise me that doctors and nurses working in coronavirus wards and ICU's over a sustained period over several months wouldn't also have also been affected in the same way.

This is what worries me about placing the decision making for assisted deaths in the hands of institutionalised hospital doctors working in specific degenerative illnesses such as MS or alzheimers.

 

[Commachio]

My experience has given me the impression that doctors and nurses who work in specialist fields where death is a common occurrence become institutionalised to it and detached from the human factor, being guided more by clinical decisions as a rssult of repeated past experiences and the almost morbid environment they work in.

Oh, this is deep, and could be interesting..

Shame it's tucked away on about page 8000 of covid.

 

[Commachio]

Secondary school pupils in Scotland will have to wear face coverings when moving through corridors and other communal areas from next week.

 

[Red Hadron Collider]

Secondary school pupils in Scotland will have to wear face coverings when moving through corridors and other communal areas from next week.

****'em

 

[JakartaToon]

Secondary school pupils in Scotland will have to wear face coverings when moving through corridors and other communal areas from next week.

Went for a run early this morning so didn’t wear a mask as no one was about. Immediately afterwards while still sweating heavily, pushed the mother-in-law round the complex in her wheelchair, with a mask on, as there were more people around.

I now know what it’s like to be waterboarded.

 

[Commachio]

Went for a run early this morning so didn’t wear a mask as no one was about. Immediately afterwards while still sweating heavily, pushed the mother-in-law round the complex in her wheelchair, with a mask on, as there were more people around.

I now know what it’s like to be waterboarded.

there's talk that we may need to wear them at work, oh joy.

 

[JakartaToon]

there's talk that we may need to wear them at work, oh joy.

I’d insist on proper masks with filters for manual jobs. These surgical masks cut down your air intake significantly.

 

[aberdude]

I’d insist on proper masks with filters for manual jobs. These surgical masks cut down your air intake significantly.

We have been in them since the start of this.....i can tell you something else about them and all....... They fk your throat and all.... Feels like you got furball behind tongue but unlike a cat it's difficult to cough it out.

Truth will come out in the end but my take is the masks will cause lots of issues with longer usage.

I haven’t wore a mask for more than a month in work after saying I wanted more medical insurances in proof of safety..... They still haven't found anything to put my mind at rest so mask stays off.

Ps the masks we use are the only ones issued and any other make cannot be worn because they don't meet safety standards ......but somehow they are safe in supermarkets according to the government advisors.

Confusion is king

 

[NostradEmus]

We have to wear masks or a face covering but we have been told that visors are ok.

Everyone has ****ed the masks off and now wears a visor. At least you can breathe.

 

[Edelman]

Where I work nothing changed spart from hand washing .
The office did nothing different and in the factory everybody works over 2 metres apart anyway .