The 2007 Mclaren Story

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Nazara

Nazara

Active Member
Apr 12, 2011
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Deep Space
Being a relative newcomer to F1 and only really watching it at around the 2006 season, most of my best memories of the sport are rather modern and "fresh".
However the one thing that has intrigued me the most during my interest in Formula One is the whole Mclaren saga of 2007 when the team had probably produced their best car of the decade and had arguably two of the best drivers on the grid, yet in the end won nothing.
What was the truth in the whole Spy-gate saga? And was Lewis' and Fernando's relationship really that bad?
I know this is quite a controversial subject, but I would like to hear the views of what other fans think, whether you are an Alonso fan, Hamilton fan, Mclaren fan, or neutral.
Please refrain from driver bias and try to give an honest, truthful opinion.
Just so I can begin to understand what really did happen.
Thanks :)
 
It was a very simple debate: Who's number one? Neither Fernando or Lewis were willing to be number 2. Both had their own individual **** ups. Note they would have won the constructors were it not for being banned and they only didn't win the drivers because of a dubious decision to not pit Lewis until his tyres were on canvas and Bridgestone were begging McLaren, and a weird gearbox "fault" which Ron Dennis says "will never happen again". Weird.
 
McLarenDan said:
It was a very simple debate: Who's number one? Neither Fernando or Lewis were willing to be number 2. Both had their own individual **** ups. Note they would have won the constructors were it not for being banned and they only didn't win the drivers because of a dubious decision to not pit Lewis until his tyres were on canvas and Bridgestone were begging McLaren, and a weird gearbox "fault" which Ron Dennis says "will never happen again". Weird.
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Having not started watching Formula One until 2008, that made no sense to me. It's something people have talked about but I've never understood so I'm of no help Sam
 
With regards to the drivers, either Alonso or his management team failed to get assured number one status for him. This may have been an oversight as they thought they wouldn't need it as he was due to partner a rookie, or McLaren refused it. I'd be surprised if McLaren refused it and Alonso continued to sign for them. I personally think it was a failing of his management. This lack of number one status and Hamilton turning out to be such a competitive partner along with McLarens equal driver policy, caused huge amounts of friction between the two drivers.

The whole spying saga was initially completely separate. Ferrari technical documents had been leaked by Nigel Stepney at Ferrari to Mike Coughlan. Stepney had already been fired by Ferrari and Ferrari had no idea technical documents had been stolen until a copier shop employee in Woking tipped them off that Coughlans wife had been seen copying Ferrari documents there. There was a legal case lodged by Ferrari agains the Coughlans and Stepney. The case against the Coughlans was dropped after they made a deal with Ferrari. A Mclaren investigation concluded that only Coughlan had access to this data and no other McLaren employees had viewed it. The FIA also inspected the McLaren cars and confirmed that no Ferrari intellectual property was present in their design. McLaren were handed a suspended constructors ban for breach of article A151c of the sporting code.

However, during the infamous Hungarian GP of 2007 Alonso allegedly threatened Ron Dennis with emails showing that both he (Alonso) and Pedro Dela Rosa had discussed the Ferrari data with Coughlan and gained an advantage. This would have caused the suspended sentence to be implemented. Ron Dennis went to the FIA immediately and informed them of the threat, but said it had no grounds and was merely an empty threat. However a month later the FIA received new evidence from an unknown source to the contrary. McLaren were then further investigated and banned from the constructors championship and a record $100M fine. Ron Dennis later claimed he had provided the extra evidence, however the FIA were critical of this and many believe it was Alonso and his management who provided it although their is no evidence either way. McLaren eventually confessed to several employees having knowledge of the Ferrari data after being threatened with a meeting of the world motor council. All legal cases were eventually drop against McLaren by Ferrari.

The whole saga was quite likely the pinnacle of FIA inconsistency in dealing with on and off track incidents which is synonymous with that era. During the 2007 season Renault F1 were also found guilty of having McLaren data and being in breach of the same A151c article yet received no punishment. This has only fuelled the pro Ferrari stance many people correctly or incorrectly hold, as well as being seen as a personal grudge my then president of the FIA Max Mosely against Ron Dennis.
 
Bob Bobbinz said:
With regards to the drivers, either Alonso or his management team failed to get assured number one status for him. This may have been an oversight as they thought they wouldn't need it as he was due to partner a rookie, or McLaren refused it. I'd be surprised if McLaren refused it and Alonso continued to sign for them. I personally think it was a failing of his management. This lack of number one status and Hamilton turning out to be such a competitive partner along with McLarens equal driver policy, caused huge amounts of friction between the two drivers.

The whole spying saga was initially completely separate. Ferrari technical documents had been leaked by Nigel Stepney at Ferrari to Mike Coughlan. Stepney had already been fired by Ferrari and Ferrari had no idea technical documents had been stolen until a copier shop employee in Woking tipped them off that Coughlans wife had been seen copying Ferrari documents there. There was a legal case lodged by Ferrari agains the Coughlans and Stepney. The case against the Coughlans was dropped after they made a deal with Ferrari. A Mclaren investigation concluded that only Coughlan had access to this data and no other McLaren employees had viewed it. The FIA also inspected the McLaren cars and confirmed that no Ferrari intellectual property was present in their design. McLaren were handed a suspended constructors ban for breach of article A151c of the sporting code.

However, during the infamous Hungarian GP of 2007 Alonso allegedly threatened Ron Dennis with emails showing that both he (Alonso) and Pedro Dela Rosa had discussed the Ferrari data with Coughlan and gained an advantage. This would have caused the suspended sentence to be implemented. Ron Dennis went to the FIA immediately and informed them of the threat, but said it had no grounds and was merely an empty threat. However a month later the FIA received new evidence from an unknown source to the contrary. McLaren were then further investigated and banned from the constructors championship and a record $100M fine. Ron Dennis later claimed he had provided the extra evidence, however the FIA were critical of this and many believe it was Alonso and his management who provided it although their is no evidence either way. McLaren eventually confessed to several employees having knowledge of the Ferrari data after being threatened with a meeting of the world motor council. All legal cases were eventually drop against McLaren by Ferrari.

The whole saga was quite likely the pinnacle of FIA inconsistency in dealing with on and off track incidents which is synonymous with that era. During the 2007 season Renault F1 were also found guilty of having McLaren data and being in breach of the same A151c article yet received no punishment. This has only fuelled the pro Ferrari stance many people correctly or incorrectly hold, as well as being seen as a personal grudge my then president of the FIA Max Mosely against Ron Dennis.
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That is all hearsay. The story goes it was all fine until Monaco where Hamilton thought he was denied the opportunity to attack, what he thought, was a slower Alonso despite Alonso merely cruising in conservation mode. Hamilton immediately aired his side of the story to the media and and understandably annoyed Alonso was looking a talk with Lewis only to be told to "go easy on Lewis" by Dennis. That is when the divide as created and when the team shifted to Hamilton's side. Hamilton breaking their qualifying agreement in Hungary was the straw that broke the camel's back it would seem.
 
This is very contraversial and I may get laughed out of town for it but when McLaren were banned from the constructors championship there was suspicion that Bernie/FIA/ferrari had decreed that they could not win the WDC with ferrari data as it would be unfair. However it was a fantastic viewing year and banning either McLaren driver from winning the WDC publicly would have been an extremely bad situation for the sport possibly turning thousands of fans away for good - especially with the very real possibility of a rookie world champion.

Therefore Bernie had them banned from winning the WDC in private to keep up the public appearance of one of the best championship fights ever, but bernie and ferrari had something over McLaren, if Dennis let one of his drivers win the WDC they could boot them out of the sport for good. Hamilton had only to get a 5th place in one of the last 2 races to win the WDC, well within his and the cars capabilities. However he wanted to come in for new tyres at china and bridgestone were telling McLaren to bring him in but the team kept him out till too late... Then there was the very very rare gearbox situation in Brazil that Dennis said "will never happen again".
 
The FIAs handling of the whole affair allows conspiracy theorists on both sides of the fence to have a field day. Personally I feel McLaren were made an example of for a practice that has gone on within F1 for decades, mainly due to a person grudge against Ron Dennis by Max Mosely.

Management was the main reason this is such a dark era in recent F1, management of the drivers by McLaren and the drivers management teams, and management of the issue by the FIA. If there is one good thing the Jean Todt has done since becoming president the it is to distance himself from the day to day running and policing of F1.
 
Bob Bobbinz said:
But if Alonso had of had a secured number 1 status like he had with Renault previously and has with Ferrari then Hamilton would have had to settle for 2nd driver if he wanted an F1 drive that year and the whole issue of who can race who wouldn't have been an issue. The incidents at Monaco and Hungary were a direct result of bad management by all parties.
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I have yet to see any evidence that Alonso had actively pursued #1 status. Maybe he was a bit confident in assuming he may not have needed but, my god it was a long time since I last debated this so finding the source will be difficult, my understanding is by the end he was merely seeking equal status. He wasnt annoyed that from Monaco onwards he wasn't getting #1 status but that he actually felt he was recieving #2 status
 
Sorry Jacky, I edited my post while you replied which is why it doesn't appear in the thread any more.

You may be right, but it is the feeling of several pundits and other drivers, and also he sought it before and since with each of his teams.

http://www.formula1blog.com/2010/07/29/report-claims-alonso-demanded-no-1-status-at-mclaren/

Like you, it's hard to find good sources from the time. If the accusations on the link above had been false than you would expect both parties to clearly deny them, however Alonso and McLaren were involved in investigations both by the FIA and Italian legal system at the time and would now not be able to deny something that tat the time they may of had documented in either case. At the time Alonso would of had no reason to not say he was trying to get number 1 status. I'm not trying to slight Alonso, I quite like him a a driver and person, however I am just stating what may well have been a root cause of the inter driver problems McLaren had that year.
 
Here is Andrew Benson's column that refers to it -http://www.bbc.co.uk/blogs/andrewbenson/2010/05/alonso_overreaching_in_reargua.html

"Alonso's last victory in Monaco was in 2007, and it was the event that marked the beginning of the end of his relationship with McLaren and their former team principal Ron Dennis.

That race is remembered as one that Alonso won thanks to team orders, after McLaren told team-mate Lewis Hamilton to slow down and not challenge Alonso for the victory.

But that reading is wrong.

This has never come out before, but it was Dennis's actions after that race that so angered Alonso, and which convinced him the team would always be behind Hamilton and not him. That was the backdrop to the tumultuous fall-out that enveloped McLaren and Alonso as that famous 'spy-gate' summer unfolded.

As a McLaren insider revealed to me: "Fernando won in Monaco fair and square in 2007.

"Lewis was generally quicker through the weekend, but in qualifying Fernando did it and Lewis didn't. Lewis was quicker in the first run but then he made mistakes and Fernando got pole.

"Fernando won the race because he pulled an 11-second gap in the first stint when Lewis had (tyre) graining and after that Fernando was just cruising because we had rear brake issues.

"But after the race, Ron said to Fernando: 'Be nice to Lewis because we had to (pit) stop him early.' And Fernando said: 'What do you mean? I was just cruising.'

"He got very annoyed about that because it was like Ron saying we handed you the victory. Even after that, the relationship was unrecoverable."
 
The clash of many ego's, and Ferrari, as usual, sinking to any method to secure a title. The whole saga stank to high heaven, especially when you consider NOTHING happened to Renault for exactly the same offence a year or two earlier. Ecclestone didn't help much by stating that Raikkonen was going to win just before the start and Lewis sudden, and still totally unexplained mechanical problem, the fact that there's no telemetry data either, which is supposd to be impossible, doesn't help.
 
Bob Bobbinz said:
Sorry Jacky, I edited my post while you replied which is why it doesn't appear in the thread any more.

You may be right, but it is the feeling of several pundits and other drivers, and also he sought it before and since with each of his teams.

http://www.formula1blog.com/2010/07/29/report-claims-alonso-demanded-no-1-status-at-mclaren/

Like you, it's hard to find good sources from the time. If the accusations on the link above had been false than you would expect both parties to clearly deny them, however Alonso and McLaren were involved in investigations both by the FIA and Italian legal system at the time and would now not be able to deny something that tat the time they may of had documented in either case. At the time Alonso would of had no reason to not say he was trying to get number 1 status. I'm not trying to slight Alonso, I quite like him a a driver and person, however I am just stating what may well have been a root cause of the inter driver problems McLaren had that year.
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I cant wait for a Ron Dennis autobiography, Fernando Alonso autobiography and Lewis Hamilton autobiography covering the subject :) will make very interesting reading
 
Given my limited exposure to Italian law I don't think here will be as much as a paragraph in any of their books devoted to it :-)
 
I'll answer this properly later but first I want to address some of the things mentioned about Hamilton's problems in the final two races. The truth is... he couldn't handle the pressure and HE lost the title. Leaving Hamilton out on old tyres wasn't very intelligent but I've seen worse decisions in F1. Hamilton was the one driving the car - he failed to take care of his tyres, he knew his tyres were shot and he messed up on his entry to the pit lane.

I dont know much about the gearbox problem in Brazil but with the FIA monitoring McLaren in that race to make sure they didnt cheat, I doubt they'd try anything. In fact, doubt they'd be able to remotely cause a problem. Uncle Ron would never screw Hamilton out of a championship, and lets not forget that Hamilton would have won the title in China had it not been for his own stupidity.
 
The whole conspiracy theory regarding the gearbox issue revolves around the FIA allegedly agreeing with Ferrari that as a result of the spying saga no McLaren driver would be allowed to win the championship, so scrutineering by the FIA wouldn't be an issue. However this is a fairly daft idea and I doubt it is the case. Further more McLaren tried to have the championship result over ruled by appealing the decision not to investigate and penalise Willams and Sauber for fuelling irregularities, if McLaren had truly agreed not to allow either driver to win the championship I doubt they would have lodged an appeal trying to do so.

You can forgive Hamilton China though as after all it was his rookie season and the team should have called him much earlier rather than keep to their original strategy, the canvas was showing by the time he entered the pit lane. It was also the first ever retirement of his career.
 
Bob Bobbinz said:
The whole conspiracy theory regarding the gearbox issue revolves around the FIA allegedly agreeing with Ferrari that as a result of the spying saga no McLaren driver would be allowed to win the championship, so scrutineering by the FIA wouldn't be an issue. However this is a fairly daft idea and I doubt it is the case. Further more McLaren tried to have the championship result over ruled by appealing the decision not to investigate and penalise Willams and Sauber for fuelling irregularities, if McLaren had truly agreed not to allow either driver to win the championship I doubt they would have lodged an appeal trying to do so.

You can forgive Hamilton China though as after all it was his rookie season and the team should have called him much earlier rather than keep to their original strategy, the canvas was showing by the time he entered the pit lane. It was also the first ever retirement of his career.
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If they had lodged their appeal differently there is a good chance they could have had it over turned, bit of a blooper from the McLaren legal dept there.

"The FIA International Court of Appeal met in London last week to hear the arguments from McLaren against the Brazilian stewards. After the race had finished back in October, an FIA delegate raised a question about the legality of BMW and Williams fuel temperature. It looked to be below the allowed limit, thus theoretically giving them an advantage. The stewards deemed that it was not possible to make the judgement, because there were discrepancies with the temperature sensors.

McLaren appealed this decision, saying they just wanted clarity on the rules, and they weren’t trying to upset the results of the race and therefore the championship.

During the hearing, however, McLaren’s lawyer did seem to be arguing for the two cars to be disqualified, saying that they shouldn’t treat the last race of the season any differently from the first. Usually when a rule has been broken, it means disqualification, and that it should be so here. That does sound suspiciously like someone trying to win the championship in the courtroom.

Either way, the judges took 24 hours to deliberate and make their decisions, and ultimately came up with this: The McLaren appeal was rejected because it was inadmissible.

This basically means that McLaren went the wrong way about protesting, they should have questioned the results of the race, rather than the stewards decision. "
 
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