Off Topic Family Trees

  • Please bear with us on the new site integration and fixing any known bugs over the coming days. If you can not log in please try resetting your password and check your spam box. If you have tried these steps and are still struggling email [email protected] with your username/registered email address
  • Log in now to remove adverts - no adverts at all to registered members!
dazzar86

dazzar86

Well-Known Member
Jan 27, 2011
2,326
481
83
NULL
Has anybody ever made one or have experience with them, or if not, can point me in the direction of an expert?

I'm a bit stuck with mine.

My grandad passed away a year and a bit ago and something always stuck with me that he told me when I was a kid. He told me about the time he enlisted in the army and wanted to join the Scottish regiment because he knew older generations of the family had been in that regiment and was adamant that the family originated from Scotland (my mum and my uncle have both since told me he told them about the same Scotland theory too).

I got a load of old paperwork from my grandad's sister - a large proportion was about my grandad's grandad (my great-great grandad?) and there was a family tree that another family member had tried to piece together about a decade or so ago.
What caught my eye and made me question the, what's the best word? Backstory? back-link? of the family tree (basically everyone that had come before him) was that they all were born, lived and died in Whitehaven, Cumbria. Not Scotland.

My grandad's grandad's records read like perhaps two people with the same name have had their records mixed together.
All his files on Ancestry seem to look that way two.

One set of records states:
Born: Whitehaven 1872
Married: Hull 1909
Died: Carlisle 1976
(why would he have died in Carlisle, when his wife and children all lived and remained in East Yorkshire?
More odd is that he outlived most of his children too, and Ancestry says he lived until he was 96, even though the dates show 104 - so by the age, they believe he was born 1879?)

Another set of records (including his WWI Navy records) states:
Born: Hull 1879
Married: Hull 1909
Died: Carlisle 1976
(My grandad's sister told me her grandma (his wife) had told her that he fell overboard and died at sea some time between the first and second world wars)

Can you see now why I think maybe two records of two people with the same name may have been mixed up? Especially as there are no links back to Scotland with the Whitehaven records - when you click on the Born in Hull records, the family tree reverts to the Whitehaven one - but it can't be the same man, as he's signed records (Navy records and marriage certificate among other things stating born in Hull in 1879. If that is the case, why would all the rest of his family be born, raised and died in Whitehaven? Also, it states his "father" died in 1876 - so if he was born in Hull in 1879, not only is it a completely different place to the rest of his family, it's also three years after his dad died!! impossible!

I've tried working it out/looking for more clues, but getting nowhere - I need someone like on those programmes on that BBC show which helps celebrities trace their ancestors.

Thanks if anyone can help!
 
I've been doing my family tree on and off for 15 years, happy to help if I can. PM me the details if you don't want them to be public.

When you say "set of records", are you talking about other people's public family trees that contain your gg-grandad? Always be wary of other people's research, it pays to do your own.
 
  • Like
Reactions: juleskaren
brownbagtiger said:
I've been doing my family tree on and off for 15 years, happy to help if I can. PM me the details if you don't want them to be public.

When you say "set of records", are you talking about other people's public family trees that contain your gg-grandad? Always be wary of other people's research, it pays to do your own.
Click to expand...

By set of records, I mean both.

Family-trees containing my gg-grandad by other people on Ancestry and the linked documents, as well as the physical copy of one given to me by my grandad's sister (who she got from another family member who had tried putting one together a decade or so ago) and I have physical copies of his marriage certificate and Navy certificate - which also includes the boats he was on, where he was stationed and also the name of a ship he was based on out of Hull after WWI which sailed between Hull and Bergen in Norway.

I'm not sure how to search for what might be a separate person born Hull 1879's backstory as everything links to this other backstory based in Whitehaven that doesn't add up or make sense.

Thanks for helping.
 
We’ve done loads on our family tree. Quite a few years ago when you had to trawl through microfiche records at libraries. We got back to Cromwell times when a lot of records unfortunately got destroyed. My sister uses the online records quite a bit for researching family history.

We’re trying to find out more about my Great Grandad who served and died in the Second World War. He seemed to live a charmed life. It’s really difficult in certain instances to get useful information. We are struggling to get decent information about him.
 
If you PM me details I'm more than happy to have a rummage around Ancestry and findmypast and see what I think - sometimes it is good to get a break from my own brick walls and investigate someone new.

In general:
  • Physical documents such as marriage certificates and military records are generally reliable records, and where you get conflicting information I would value the documents you have in hand
  • However, people don't always give accurate information to officials such as registrars and recruiting officers. I have examples of outright lies to fudging the truth. Also, 100+ years ago, folk weren't as accurate as they are now in things like date of birth, so ages may vary by +/- several years.
  • It's possible your gg-grandad was born in Hull and baptised in Whitehaven or vice-versa?
  • Is the Carlisle death a death record or a burial record. He could have died in Carlisle on holiday or visiting elsewhere? Or died in Hull and wanted to be buried back in Cumbria? I have a relative dying far from home but brought back for burial.
  • Look at things sideways - for example, my g-grandfather never gave the same name twice to any official, but I've still managed to track him around the country thanks to the records of his first wife and family and his second wife (my g-grandmother) and children. Plus the occasional newspaper report. So don't just focus on your direct ancestor, have a look at what their siblings were doing too, and fill out their trees.
  • The census records are invaluable, and "lost" relations will often pop up staying with cousins. Have you found your gg-grandad in the census's? What do they say for his place of birth?
  • Family stories often have a nugget of fact at the core, but the truth is often very different to the lore that is passed down. So it is possible you do have a connection to Scotland somehow, but it is not the one that was told to your grandfather. I uncovered all sorts of stuff going on with my g-grandfather that my father had no idea about, but explained some odd things he had heard. The family story he was told was a masterpiece in public spin to sound respectable.
 
My family tree was sent to me by a woman in Utah (mormon of course) she has the same surname as me, the tree goes back to 1600
 
We gave up at William the Conqueror. The "Bastard" spoke French, we didn't. :emoticon-0100-smile:emoticon-0105-wink: That's only on the father's side.
What goes around, comes around. I married a French Canadian- too late.

T'other side likely Nordic - so essentially Nordic both sides. Would Solksjaer "gis a job" I wonder ?
 
Last edited:
brownbagtiger said:
If you PM me details I'm more than happy to have a rummage around Ancestry and findmypast and see what I think - sometimes it is good to get a break from my own brick walls and investigate someone new.

In general:
  • Physical documents such as marriage certificates and military records are generally reliable records, and where you get conflicting information I would value the documents you have in hand
  • However, people don't always give accurate information to officials such as registrars and recruiting officers. I have examples of outright lies to fudging the truth. Also, 100+ years ago, folk weren't as accurate as they are now in things like date of birth, so ages may vary by +/- several years.
  • It's possible your gg-grandad was born in Hull and baptised in Whitehaven or vice-versa?
  • Is the Carlisle death a death record or a burial record. He could have died in Carlisle on holiday or visiting elsewhere? Or died in Hull and wanted to be buried back in Cumbria? I have a relative dying far from home but brought back for burial.
  • Look at things sideways - for example, my g-grandfather never gave the same name twice to any official, but I've still managed to track him around the country thanks to the records of his first wife and family and his second wife (my g-grandmother) and children. Plus the occasional newspaper report. So don't just focus on your direct ancestor, have a look at what their siblings were doing too, and fill out their trees.
  • The census records are invaluable, and "lost" relations will often pop up staying with cousins. Have you found your gg-grandad in the census's? What do they say for his place of birth?
  • Family stories often have a nugget of fact at the core, but the truth is often very different to the lore that is passed down. So it is possible you do have a connection to Scotland somehow, but it is not the one that was told to your grandfather. I uncovered all sorts of stuff going on with my g-grandfather that my father had no idea about, but explained some odd things he had heard. The family story he was told was a masterpiece in public spin to sound respectable.
Click to expand...

Thanks, I will send you a PM.

I've found two linked census records and they seem to be the only two which come up in searches. One states he was born in Whitehaven in 1872. The other states he was born in Hull in 1879. His marriage certificate states 1909 and the census two years later which says he was born in Hull in 1879 states he's 32 years of age.

The entire family history from 1909 (the year of his marriage) onwards is all in Hull/East Yorkshire, where the majority of the entire family has remained.
Lived on Selby Street in Hull (near where the KCOM is now), married at St Matthew's - also opposite where the KCOM is now.
The two children born in Hull (before the family moved out in the East Riding countryside) were baptised on St George's Road, which joins on to Selby Street.
Wouldn't make sense for him to be born in Hull (3 years after his dad has died - how does that work?) but baptised in Whitehaven.

I have no idea where the death record comes from - it is just stated on Ancestry as fact without any supporting documents. Like I said, my grandad's sister said she was told he died at sea between WWI and WWII.

I feel like I've hit a brick wall with it all, so if you could help unravel things further, that would be fantastic. Thanks.
 
We traced my wife’s side back to 1675.

My side is a bit more complex and our family name isn’t our real name!

We found that one of our relatives was hung in Hull prison for murdering his wife!

The famines in the 1860s meant people moved around far more than you would imagine.
 
dazzar86 said:
I have no idea where the death record comes from - it is just stated on Ancestry as fact without any supporting documents. Like I said, my grandad's sister said she was told he died at sea between WWI and WWII..
Click to expand...
The hint system on Ancestry can be a blessing and a curse. If someone has found a record saying that a man with the same name died in 1976, and added that record to their tree, then the Ancestry algorithm will pick that up and offer it as a hint to anyone else looking for people of similar names/ages/locations. Too many people accept hints as gospel instead of what they are, a hint to be looked at and critically evaluated. Then once a couple of people accept a hint, but don't add the source record, then more people think that it must be true and voila! Suddenly your gg-grandad is said to have died in 1976.
 
with those that have died more recently it's probable that there were announcements in a local newspaper. it can be a useful way of linking people. the history centre has the hull daiy mail on film going back to its inception, although searching when you don't have a precise date can take ages.

it's very easy to take wrong turnings with family trees. good luck.
 
dazzar86 said:
Has anybody ever made one or have experience with them, or if not, can point me in the direction of an expert?

I'm a bit stuck with mine.

My grandad passed away a year and a bit ago and something always stuck with me that he told me when I was a kid. He told me about the time he enlisted in the army and wanted to join the Scottish regiment because he knew older generations of the family had been in that regiment and was adamant that the family originated from Scotland (my mum and my uncle have both since told me he told them about the same Scotland theory too).

I got a load of old paperwork from my grandad's sister - a large proportion was about my grandad's grandad (my great-great grandad?) and there was a family tree that another family member had tried to piece together about a decade or so ago.
What caught my eye and made me question the, what's the best word? Backstory? back-link? of the family tree (basically everyone that had come before him) was that they all were born, lived and died in Whitehaven, Cumbria. Not Scotland.

My grandad's grandad's records read like perhaps two people with the same name have had their records mixed together.
All his files on Ancestry seem to look that way two.

One set of records states:
Born: Whitehaven 1872
Married: Hull 1909
Died: Carlisle 1976
(why would he have died in Carlisle, when his wife and children all lived and remained in East Yorkshire?
More odd is that he outlived most of his children too, and Ancestry says he lived until he was 96, even though the dates show 104 - so by the age, they believe he was born 1879?)

Another set of records (including his WWI Navy records) states:
Born: Hull 1879
Married: Hull 1909
Died: Carlisle 1976
(My grandad's sister told me her grandma (his wife) had told her that he fell overboard and died at sea some time between the first and second world wars)

Can you see now why I think maybe two records of two people with the same name may have been mixed up? Especially as there are no links back to Scotland with the Whitehaven records - when you click on the Born in Hull records, the family tree reverts to the Whitehaven one - but it can't be the same man, as he's signed records (Navy records and marriage certificate among other things stating born in Hull in 1879. If that is the case, why would all the rest of his family be born, raised and died in Whitehaven? Also, it states his "father" died in 1876 - so if he was born in Hull in 1879, not only is it a completely different place to the rest of his family, it's also three years after his dad died!! impossible!

I've tried working it out/looking for more clues, but getting nowhere - I need someone like on those programmes on that BBC show which helps celebrities trace their ancestors.

Thanks if anyone can help!
Click to expand...


If you're using Ancestry, try the Censuses - very good details on there, and work your way backwards from 1911.
 
I've managed to get back quite a way, but there's some gaps to fill in. It seems the oldest ancestor I can find was called Lucy, and she lived in Africa about 3 million years ago.
 
  • Like
Reactions: tigerscanada and Ron Burguvdy
My mum was heavily into genealogy, back in the day when it had to be completed the hard way, visiting libraries, registry offices, graveyards etc.
One discovery was that the Titanic's Captain John Smith is my great great uncle. My mum is acknowledged in his autobiography for providing family tree information.
He married into the Mason/Spode Family of pottery fame. Some ancestor of mine drank and gambled the whole family fortune away...twat!
 
  • Like
Reactions: tigerscanada and dennisboothstash
askewshair said:
My mum was heavily into genealogy, back in the day when it had to be completed the hard way, visiting libraries, registry offices, graveyards etc.
One discovery was that the Titanic's Captain John Smith is my great great uncle. My mum is acknowledged in his autobiography for providing family tree information.
He married into the Mason/Spode Family of pottery fame. Some ancestor of mine drank and gambled the whole family fortune away...twat!
Click to expand...
Pretty sure you have certainly kept the genes going of the last ancestor you mentioned!
 
My Mum did loads in ours in the days of microfiche research. Remember helping on few holidays.
Haven’t paid much attention since.
I do know at least one of my ancestors was sent to Australia, and he was sent there for killing someone in a bare knuckle boxing match!
There’s more of my family name in Aus than the UK...which probably says something :emoticon-0101-sadsm
 
You must log in or register to reply here.
Top Bottom
Back