Up Till Now....

  • Please bear with us on the new site integration and fixing any known bugs over the coming days. If you can not log in please try resetting your password and check your spam box. If you have tried these steps and are still struggling email [email protected] with your username/registered email address
  • Log in now to remove adverts - no adverts at all to registered members!
If you read these it seems they were all at it, Africans, Arabs , Europeans from Danes to the Brits and some are still at it ~

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Atlantic_slave_trade
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Edward_Colston

Cast your net wide enough, go back deep enough and you find Greeks, Romans, Vikings, even North Africans raiding the coast of Cornwall, Wales and Ireland, how deep do you go to blame, how long does it take to heal, how long will people want to live off of their forefathers sorrows and hurt.

It's surely time to forgive and move forward.
 
  • Like
Reactions: Reliant Robin TC2 and oneforthebristolcity
Redprintt said:
Will the authorities arrest the woman who tried to light the Union Jack when climbing on the Cenotaph.

As if.
Click to expand...

As far as I'm aware it's not illegal so why would they? Pretty scummy yes but if it's not illegal then what can they do?
 
BCFCRob said:
As far as I'm aware it's not illegal so why would they? Pretty scummy yes but if it's not illegal then what can they do?
Click to expand...
I think the law states if you bring your own flag and burn it, it's not breaking the law but if you tear one down off of the monument, it's not your property, so you can be done.
 
BCFCRob said:
Yeah I completely get your point and I agree with it to some extent. We all comply with social norms whether we're aware of it or not, but I just disagree in that even if it was a very different world back then, and even if morals were different, I'd say there was surely enough similarity in right and wrong to know that what he was doing was wrong. It doesn't really matter to me what his contemporaries were doing. As already mentioned, opposition to slavery began before even Colston was born. I'll at least concede that he was less of a bad person than a modern day slave 'owner' would be though, as the norms have shifted over time, as you've said.

But we've said our sides, and I don't see how we can go further without repeating ourselves continuously <laugh>
Click to expand...

We/You are a product of environments. Place yourself in another time and another culture your views and behaviour will alter.

In my younger years I lived in South Africa and travelled around East Africa. I regularly came into contact with people whose behaviour if it took place in the UK would be considered morally unacceptable, even illegal. Women in parts of East Africa can be in marriages where they are totally subservient - Enslaved. That is a accepted social norm.

BLM's view of that now?

In Kenya your birth can decide what opportunities you will have in life. Employment is frequently linked to the tribes controlling it and corruption. Kenya's former President Moi was a murderous maniac, but not an exception in Africa. Moi and his party were responsible for black on black atrocities including massacres of Non Kenyans/ Kenyans/the disabled, and rape .. This is not hundreds of years ago its twenty.

BLM view?
 
Last edited:
  • Like
Reactions: Reliant Robin TC2, Red Alert, Angelicnumber16 and 2 others
Cliftonville said:
We/You are a product of your environment. Place yourself in another time and another culture your views and behaviour will alter.

In my younger years I lived in South Africa and travelled around East Africa, . I regularly came into contact with people whose behaviour if it took place in the UK would be considered morally unacceptable, even illegal. Women in parts of East Africa can be in marriages where they are totally subservient - Enslaved. That is a accepted social norm.

BLM's view of that now?

In Kenya your birth can decide what opportunities you will have in life, employment is frequently linked to the tribes controlling it and corruption. Kenya's President Moi was a murderous maniac, but not an exception in Africa. Moi and his party were responsible for black on black atrocities including massacres of Non Kenyans/ Kenyans/the disabled, and rape .. This is not hundreds of years ago its twenty.

BLM view?
Click to expand...
They wouldn't ever admit that their own people would do that to one another....maybe they would find it acceptable, so long that it doesn't involve white people!.......same as benefiting from products and goods that members of BLM buy on a daily basis made from countries still practicing slavery or illegal enforced child labour..
 
  • Like
Reactions: johngalleyfan2
wizered said:
I think the law states if you bring your own flag and burn it, it's not breaking the law but if you tear one down off of the monument, it's not your property, so you can be done.
Click to expand...

I see, in that case they should be arrested.

Not even sure what the point of your post is Cliftonville. What you've referenced is barbaric and wrong. How does that have anything to do with what I've said? A massively tenuous link and a complete and utter waste of time.

I don't care how different social norms are. They will have known that 'owning' slaves was morally wrong in the 1600's and 1700's. Some more slight differences are of course forgivable given the different times. I'm not sure 'owning' slaves counts as slight.
 
BCFCRob said:
I see, in that case they should be arrested.

Not even sure what the point of your post is Cliftonville. What you've referenced is barbaric and wrong. How does that have anything to do with what I've said? A massively tenuous link and a complete and utter waste of time.

I don't care how different social norms are. They will have known that 'owning' slaves was morally wrong in the 1600's and 1700's. Some more slight differences are of course forgivable given the different times. I'm not sure 'owning' slaves counts as slight.
Click to expand...

You also need to consider that people in a lot of underdeveloped countries right now, and back here in the 17th and 18th centuries, the people are and were largely uneducated. The vast majority of people couldn't read or write and wouldn't have had a school to go to.
So the power, influence and money aspect between the have's and have nots hasn't changed a jot between now and then, but people do largely understand right from wrong even if they then choose to ignore it now.
 
BCFCRob said:
I see, in that case they should be arrested.

Not even sure what the point of your post is Cliftonville. What you've referenced is barbaric and wrong. How does that have anything to do with what I've said? A massively tenuous link and a complete and utter waste of time.

I don't care how different social norms are. They will have known that 'owning' slaves was morally wrong in the 1600's and 1700's. Some more slight differences are of course forgivable given the different times. I'm not sure 'owning' slaves counts as slight.
Click to expand...

The post was about social norms. Norms that occur now. We are products of our time. Colston was a product of his. You are continually mentioning the past. Not the now.

I travelled in Tanzania. I met a truly charming man while in Arusha who introduced me to his family. I have no doubt at all he loved his family and his wife. His treatment of his wife reduce her to a slave due to the interpretation of the religion he followed shaping his morals. Did he feel his behaviour was morally wrong? I have no doubt he did not.

The post was also about BLM. What about Africa and parts of the world where discrimination and barbarity exists in extremes beyond that found in Western Countries? That is that now again. BLM - It is selective
 
  • Like
Reactions: oneforthebristolcity, Redprintt and Angelicnumber16
BCFCRob said:
I'm going round in circles a bit anyways. Let me end it by saying Colston = bad person,
Click to expand...
you cannot say he is a bad person as the GOOD he did achieved far far far out weighs the BAD … DO A WELLINGTON …. and the pro column will reach the bottom of the page the against column will be just one word or line.

here is a question for you should w wipe you from history because you did 1 thing wrong ?
 
oneforthebristolcity said:
They wouldn't ever admit that their own people would do that to one another....maybe they would find it acceptable, so long that it doesn't involve white people!.......same as benefiting from products and goods that members of BLM buy on a daily basis made from countries still practicing slavery or illegal enforced child labour..
Click to expand...

Religions?? Islam??? ahh difficult.

Blame white people and its easier to chuck a statue in a dock because police frozen by political correctness let them.
 
  • Like
Reactions: Reliant Robin TC2, oneforthebristolcity, Redprintt and 1 other person
Red Alert said:
Religions?? Islam??? ahh difficult.

Blame white people and its easier to chuck a statue in a dock because police frozen by political correctness let them.
Click to expand...

Not sure it was political correctness, and it was only Bristol police who failed to act as they should have done, and they've been rightly criticised by their own federation for idly standing by and allowing the mob to pull the statue down. But the Police in general seemed quite happy to follow and stop people who drove a mile from home to exercise their dog at the start of lockdown when there was no law in place to allow them to do so. Double standards.
 
  • Like
Reactions: oneforthebristolcity and Redprintt
Angelicnumber16 said:
He did a lot of good for the city of Bristol which is still seen today in terms of the schools and infrastructure that his money helped fund.
Click to expand...
He not only did things for Bristol his endowments are country wide … an interesting interview the day of a Black lady who went to Colston school... it was mentioned other creeds and nationalities have been going there for a very very long time ...people have worshipped in the cathedral and church for centuries and admired them and the people that helped in there upkeep ….
the one thing that towers over everything else was that for over 50 years he pushed the boundaries of "trading" [ slaving aside ] and was a massive employer through all his business activities.
the odd person who gets interviewed has said [ from all sides ] education is the key.
I am a staunch believer in all lives matter [ providing they are not top end of bad criminals ] and the modern day age has made it so simple for people to expect to be fed and clothed.
I have a relative who struggled bringing up her 3 kids, both parents worked [ tad above average wage ] her sister with 3 kids lived in the same type of house rent paid free school meals could go out 3 times a week and afford a baby sitter, ran a car had 2 holidays a year and has saved up enough to put a deposit on a house as she has now after 16 years got a job... thanks to the likes of you and me

far to many of all creeds or race believe us hard working [ and that does include all crreeds races ] tax payers owe them a living. Look at the world ..the big world and you will see it is not just one particular race [ white black yellow or whatever ] that has disparities ….
English person on the dole gets offered a job it pays £9 an hour … turns it down wants a job paying £12 an hour because he has a mate [who has wife kids and mortgage ] and gets £12 an hour …. so he turns it down as the state is supporting him and his wife and 2 kids [ on the bread line but get charitable hand outs and go to the pub each day ] "in poverty"
wonders why no one will employ him for £12 an hour let alone £9 or £9.50 …. answer you need to be able to say to prospective employer here is my CV … not "i want a job paying £12 an hour , but been out of work for 10 years or so.
people of all creeds and race make it to the top it is called "working at it" not finding excuses why you cant ………..
 
  • Like
Reactions: Angelicnumber16
RedorDead said:
You must log in or register to see images
Click to expand...
aptly said...
told it before my grandfather story ...instilled in me at age 4-5 believe in something and be strong with your principles and learn from your mistakes …. was blind and only had 2 half hands and other than ST Dunstans helping with his house rent he earned his own living
 
johngalleyfan2 said:
you cannot say he is a bad person as the GOOD he did achieved far far far out weighs the BAD … DO A WELLINGTON …. and the pro column will reach the bottom of the page the against column will be just one word or line.

here is a question for you should w wipe you from history because you did 1 thing wrong ?
Click to expand...

Hahaha what on earth is this.

What good could possibly outweigh owning actual slaves?
 
You must log in or register to reply here.
Top Bottom
Back