Quite frankly my dear, I do give a damn.

[Kittenmittons]

Ah right, so the Black Lives Matter movement would be better called All Lives Matter ...

... that's more like it.

They do. And as was said, if one house is on fire, and I run into the street shouting 'my house is on fire!' it is not a statement that nobody else's house has problems or that my house matters more, but that mine is actually on fire and it would be good if people could recognise that and put it out, then maybe we can fix Barry's jammed window tomorrow...

 

[Smug in Boots]

“We can no longer from today onward be proud, we can no longer remain silent on the senseless unlawful killing, sly racism of another human being based only on what? Their skin colour.

“We need to speak out in peaceful demonstrations just like today. So well done Watford, inject the vaccine.

“We must not use the demonstration for selfish motives and turn it into rioting and looting. We need to be united in non-violent demonstrations.

Show them where it hurts, abstain from spending your money in their shops and economies, and invest in black-owned businesses.

“And that’s for all communities if you want to uplift yourselves, invest in your own businesses.


The transcript of the first part of Antony Joshua's speech from the other day. Is what he said acceptable?

"Show them where it hurts, abstain from spending your money in their shops and economies, and invest in black-owned businesses."

I seem to remember a similar 'solution' in Germany, late 1930's ...

... rightly condemned as blatantly racist.

 

[Chunksafc]

This has come up in various forms over the last few pages. This and Stormzy offering a scholarship to black kids.

I ask you a question.

Imagine you have an exam for which you spend 2 weeks revising and learning on the internet, in books and with friends, while another person spent those 2 weeks being denied access to the library, the internet, and study groups. Then on the day of the exam, they say 'actually we did wrong, sorry, you can now have access to all of these things'

Who has an advantage in the exam? Are the two people equal? Have they really been given the exact same opportunity as the other person?

A fair examiner may look at that situation and conclude that the second person had been treated unfairly. They may be given more time to prepare for the exam, to make up for the unfair starting point that they had. Would you say that was an unfair thing to do?



So for centuries and certainly up until very recently in UK history, black people have faced outright prejudice. They've been denied access to equal opportunities and even now, still face discrimination around the UK. It is better today than it was. There are laws that forbid outright discrimination.

But the black community has been denied access to the library and those study resources, and are now told to pass the same exam as white people. They suffer from greater poverty because of the lack of opportunities that their mothers and fathers had to go to university, get better jobs and so forth. Some people managed it, despite the barriers, but almost half of black kids in this country are in poverty.

Now what Stormzy does is say 'I feel that my community has been denied opportunities for so long, that I would like to make sure that I redress that balance in some way, by offering some poor black kids who come from a disadvantaged area a chance to do something positive, and hopefully drag one or two more families out of the poverty cycle. Bit by bit.

And what AJ says is that if you have a choice to shop in two places, choose the one that brings up your community, not someone else's. Put your money into something positive, and drag a business out of 'survival' and into 'expansion', helping other people in the community get jobs. Bit by bit, small, positive actions.

So I think both of those things are forms of positive action that people can take to drag black communities up using their own means, without handouts.

So you believe what he said was acceptable? Now imagine Tyson Fury saying the same and encouraging white people to shop in white shops. Then imagine the outcry.

Racism works both ways, this is not a one way street

 

[Smug in Boots]

So you believe what he said was acceptable? Now imagine Tyson Fury saying the same and encouraging white people to shop in white shops. Then imagine the outcry.

Racism works both ways, this is not a one way street

People like Joshua are so simplistic with their solutions.

'Let's stop spending money in the white mobile phone shop where the owner has invested in facilities for young black people ...

... and spend it in the black shop where the owner has convictions for drug dealing and violence.

As long as you get the colour right you'll be in the right'.

 

[Saf]

This has come up in various forms over the last few pages. This and Stormzy offering a scholarship to black kids.

I ask you a question.

Imagine you have an exam for which you spend 2 weeks revising and learning on the internet, in books and with friends, while another person spent those 2 weeks being denied access to the library, the internet, and study groups. Then on the day of the exam, they say 'actually we did wrong, sorry, you can now have access to all of these things'

Who has an advantage in the exam? Are the two people equal? Have they really been given the exact same opportunity as the other person?

A fair examiner may look at that situation and conclude that the second person had been treated unfairly. They may be given more time to prepare for the exam, to make up for the unfair starting point that they had. Would you say that was an unfair thing to do?



So for centuries and certainly up until very recently in UK history, black people have faced outright prejudice. They've been denied access to equal opportunities and even now, still face discrimination around the UK. It is better today than it was. There are laws that forbid outright discrimination.

But the black community has been denied access to the library and those study resources, and are now told to pass the same exam as white people. They suffer from greater poverty because of the lack of opportunities that their mothers and fathers had to go to university, get better jobs and so forth. Some people managed it, despite the barriers, but almost half of black kids in this country are in poverty.

Now what Stormzy does is say 'I feel that my community has been denied opportunities for so long, that I would like to make sure that I redress that balance in some way, by offering some poor black kids who come from a disadvantaged area a chance to do something positive, and hopefully drag one or two more families out of the poverty cycle. Bit by bit.

And what AJ says is that if you have a choice to shop in two places, choose the one that brings up your community, not someone else's. Put your money into something positive, and drag a business out of 'survival' and into 'expansion', helping other people in the community get jobs. Bit by bit, small, positive actions.

So I think both of those things are forms of positive action that people can take to drag black communities up using their own means, without handouts.

 

[Kittenmittons]

So you believe what he said was acceptable? Now imagine Tyson Fury saying the same and encouraging white people to shop in white shops. Then imagine the outcry.

Racism works both ways, this is not a one way street

But do you not recognise the fundamental difference in starting points? Saying that you want people to spend more money in black owned businesses to bring them to an equal point where they can compete with other businesses is not the same. It neglects that most people do already spend money in white-owned businesses because they represent the majority of places people can shop. Saying 'spend more with the people who are disadvantaged' makes perfect sense.

If Tyson Fury said he thought gypsies should spend more money in gypsy owned businesses to support their local community, I'd understand exactly what he meant. You know exactly what AJ meant. Saying it's racist to drag the disadvantaged people around you up is just willfully ignoring the point. I wonder, if someone said to spend money in North East businesses over ones in the South, would you consider that anti-Southern, or pro-North-Eastern?

 

[Shameless]

Which statistics? The ones that suggest that more Asians graduate university than caucasians? The statistics also confirm that Asians are an even smaller minority in the western world.

This has been studied by people far more qualified than myself and perhaps a member of our well-informed community could come in at this point if you want to further examine this claim.

There is a distinct link between poverty, educational attainment and the subsequent denial of equal opportunity.

This link extends to poverty and people of certain ethnic groups and various groups of people of colour and the same link that results in higher crime rates and deaths from coronavirus. The common denominator is relative poverty and that can not be easily extricated from issues relating to race and ethnicities

 

[Chunksafc]

But do you not recognise the fundamental difference in starting points? Saying that you want people to spend more money in black owned businesses to bring them to an equal point where they can compete with other businesses is not the same. It neglects that most people do already spend money in white-owned businesses because they represent the majority of places people can shop. Saying 'spend more with the people who are disadvantaged' makes perfect sense.

If Tyson Fury said he thought gypsies should spend more money in gypsy owned businesses to support their local community, I'd understand exactly what he meant. You know exactly what AJ meant. Saying it's racist to drag the disadvantaged people around you up is just willfully ignoring the point. I wonder, if someone said to spend money in North East businesses over ones in the South, would you consider that anti-Southern, or pro-North-Eastern?

To be perfectly honest, I wouldn't know what skin colour the owner is in 99% of the shops i go in and couldn't give a flying **** as long as the prices are reasonable.

I ask again, is it acceptable what Joshua said?

If a white man had said the same would people be jumping through hoops to make excuses or would they instantly think it was racist?

 

[Smug in Boots]

But do you not recognise the fundamental difference in starting points? Saying that you want people to spend more money in black owned businesses to bring them to an equal point where they can compete with other businesses is not the same. It neglects that most people do already spend money in white-owned businesses because they represent the majority of places people can shop. Saying 'spend more with the people who are disadvantaged' makes perfect sense.

If Tyson Fury said he thought gypsies should spend more money in gypsy owned businesses to support their local community, I'd understand exactly what he meant. You know exactly what AJ meant. Saying it's racist to drag the disadvantaged people around you up is just willfully ignoring the point. I wonder, if someone said to spend money in North East businesses over ones in the South, would you consider that anti-Southern, or pro-North-Eastern?

What's stopping them being equal now ...

... do black owners pay higher rates, get taxed more heavily, charged more for having their bins emptied?

 

[Smug in Boots]

To be perfectly honest, I wouldn't know what skin colour the owner is in 99% of the shops i go in and couldn't give a flying **** as long as the prices are reasonable.

I ask again, is it acceptable what Joshua said?

If a white man had said the same would people be jumping through hoops to make excuses or would they instantly think it was racist?

If you walk into a shop where every member of staff is black, how do you know if the owner is white.

Should you ask for the company details, ethnicity of shareholders, etc.

 

[Saf]

@Kittenmittons Do you want to try and excuse this text message from Anthony Joshua, too?

You must log in or register to see images

You’re the only person, that I can see, who is trying to excuse and defend a racist and his racist comments. Shame on you

 

[Kittenmittons]

What's stopping them being equal now ...

... do black owners pay higher rates, get taxed more heavily, charged more for having their bins emptied?

I notice literally nobody wants to answer the fundamental issue of whether black people are equal after centuries of outright discrimination, where we are one generation removed from No blacks, no Irish, no dogs' and bananas on the pitch. Nobody wants to think about whether it's fair to keep a community down for so long (deliberately and with outright racism) and then say they are equal now. That racism was solved and they have the same opportunities.

Nobody wants to admit that if you beat someone up for weeks before a boxing match, then stop beating him the day before and put him in the ring, he's going to lose the majority of his fights. He isn't equal, he's at a disadvantage, he should be given help to make the situation equal.

Even now people won;t recognise that this is common sense.

 

[Owld Feller]

There’s bad language on here so you might want to turn the volume down a notch if there’s kid about.

You must log in or register to see media

She hits the nail squarely on the head, but in the eyes of those that wish to take offense on other's behalf, they will choose to ignore her sentiments to further their own agendas, which often are the polar opposite of the issues at hand.

 

[The Norton Cat]

But do you not recognise the fundamental difference in starting points? Saying that you want people to spend more money in black owned businesses to bring them to an equal point where they can compete with other businesses is not the same. It neglects that most people do already spend money in white-owned businesses because they represent the majority of places people can shop. Saying 'spend more with the people who are disadvantaged' makes perfect sense.

If Tyson Fury said he thought gypsies should spend more money in gypsy owned businesses to support their local community, I'd understand exactly what he meant. You know exactly what AJ meant. Saying it's racist to drag the disadvantaged people around you up is just willfully ignoring the point. I wonder, if someone said to spend money in North East businesses over ones in the South, would you consider that anti-Southern, or pro-North-Eastern?

But it sounds very radical to some people and, on the whole, people don't like radical solutions.
You should be able to see from many of the responses to your posts on this thread how important it is to get the message right.

 

[Saf]

If you walk into a shop where every member of staff is black, how do you know if the owner is white.

Should you ask for the company details, ethnicity of shareholders, etc.

You need to get companies house up before you walk in a shop now

 

[Kittenmittons]

@Kittenmittons Do you want to try and excuse this text message from Anthony Joshua, too?

You must log in or register to see images

You’re the only person, that I can see, who is trying to excuse and defend a racist and his racist comments. Shame on you

No I don't, I thought it was racist and he was a ****ing idiot for saying it even in private.

But I thought you supported Churchill yeah? The racist? It's ok for you to support him, to say his racism doesn't take away from his achievements in other areas?

 

[Shameless]

Ah right, so the Black Lives Matter movement would be better called All Lives Matter ...

... that's more like it.

Well, that certainly sounds like the sensible middle ground and who could morally disagree that all lives should matter equally irrespective of any racial, cultural or ethnic background?

Except when you use this term in the context of a challenge to the Black Lives Matter debate it has the impact of potential to hijack the debate or obfuscate the real issue that systemic racism is still a blight on our society.

 

[Chunksafc]

If you walk into a shop where every member of staff is black, how do you know if the owner is white.

Should you ask for the company details, ethnicity of shareholders, etc.

I guess i will have to start asking the people who work there? Although I'm not quite sure how to word the question without appearing racist

 

[Owld Feller]

But do you not recognise the fundamental difference in starting points? Saying that you want people to spend more money in black owned businesses to bring them to an equal point where they can compete with other businesses is not the same. It neglects that most people do already spend money in white-owned businesses because they represent the majority of places people can shop. Saying 'spend more with the people who are disadvantaged' makes perfect sense.

If Tyson Fury said he thought gypsies should spend more money in gypsy owned businesses to support their local community, I'd understand exactly what he meant. You know exactly what AJ meant. Saying it's racist to drag the disadvantaged people around you up is just willfully ignoring the point. I wonder, if someone said to spend money in North East businesses over ones in the South, would you consider that anti-Southern, or pro-North-Eastern?

The post of a simplistic racist who believes he knows better that anyone else!

 

[Smug in Boots]

I notice literally nobody wants to answer the fundamental issue of whether black people are equal after centuries of outright discrimination, where we are one generation removed from No blacks, no Irish, no dogs' and bananas on the pitch. Nobody wants to think about whether it's fair to keep a community down for so long (deliberately and with outright racism) and then say they are equal now. That racism was solved and they have the same opportunities.

Nobody wants to admit that if you beat someone up for weeks before a boxing match, then stop beating him the day before and put him in the ring, he's going to lose the majority of his fights. He isn't equal, he's at a disadvantage, he should be given help to make the situation equal.

Even now people won;t recognise that this is common sense.

The answer is that some are equal, some aren't and some are more than equal ...

... same apples to white people.

Some black people deserve better and some don't.

Some black people prefer criminality to work, as do some white people.

Why, when there are so many unemployed black young men, and crops rotting in the fields, do we have to rely on foreigners flying in from Romania.

Do you believe the farmers refuse to employ blacks.