Off Topic The Politics Thread

[Staines R's]

What I’m getting at from my original point, was that throughout history through all movements you’ve had people trying to discredit and undermine by detracting away from the reason to protest, be that focus on an unlawful minority, call them childish names or make claims that they want history re-written. I’m not addressing anything else other than that point and suggesting there is clear evidence of that happening through the current protests. Anything other than that is bollox and going off from a tangent from my original point.

With respect Wills......you went off on a tangent to some of my points...I guess we all do it and it’s part of the debate.

Still, I’ve now got Ravings quote in my mind......

 

[Staines R's]

Tarquins and Ruperts are far more likely to be smashing up restaurants as part of the elitist Conservative Bullingdon Club anyway...

We had a Rupert as our chairman and he was a fox hunting, duck shooting toff who is now a member of the Brexit party.

We had Hugo at the BLM protest last week....he looked spiffing in his t shirt.

 

[bobmid]

Tarquins and Ruperts are far more likely to be smashing up restaurants as part of the elitist Conservative Bullingdon Club anyway...

We had a Rupert as our chairman and he was a fox hunting, duck shooting toff who is now a member of the Brexit party.

That's funny cos a developer I work for is called Tarquin. A real brexiteer and a Tory party member to boot. Not a bad fella but totally oblivious to anyone but himself.

 

[Willhoops]

With respect Wills......you went off on a tangent to some of my points...I guess we all do it and it’s part of the debate.

Still, I’ve now got Ravings quote in my mind......

I understand, I guess my frustration is I do see some people only wanting to look at one aspect, and in my opinion purposely, to undermine the main purpose to protest. I’d also question the validity of some of the stuff I’ve seen, the concern being is that people post something because it fits what they want to believe, I have fallen fowl to this, and the damage has done, probably why Trump and Boris get away with so many lies.

The one that sticks in my mind was from a few years back when there was a story doing the rounds about a soldier in uniform being refused to be served in Tesco because it might offend the Muslims. It was made up, they gave a street name which didn’t exist in the area they were claiming and there was no Tesco on a street with that name. I went around on Facebook advising a load of people who put it up, one took it down, most ignored my comment and just left it there, one said well it’s the sorta thing they would do...

 

[Staines R's]

I understand, I guess my frustration is I do see some people only wanting to look at one aspect, and in my opinion purposely, to undermine the main purpose to protest. I’d also question the validity of some of the stuff I’ve seen, the concern being is that people post something because it fits what they want to believe, I have fallen fowl to this, and the damage has done, probably why Trump and Boris get away with so many lies.

The one that sticks in my mind was from a few years back when there was a story doing the rounds about a soldier in uniform being refused to be served in Tesco because it might offend the Muslims. It was made up, they gave a street name which didn’t exist in the area they were claiming and there was no Tesco on a street with that name. I went around on Facebook advising a load of people who put it up, one took it down, most ignored my comment and just left it there, one said well it’s the sorta thing they would do...

The thing is Wills, u can only look at things from a mostly level headed point of view....I saw the same story and it was quite obviously bollox and yeah it was just made up to stir **** and went viral.....but you could say that for any urban myth eg the Arab fella/lost wallet/ don’t go to London on Tuesday one. I had a good mate swear it was his Mrs best mate who it happened to...all a complete load of bollox of course....
Some people get their kicks from these sort of things....

 

[Tobes]

I understand, I guess my frustration is I do see some people only wanting to look at one aspect, and in my opinion purposely, to undermine the main purpose to protest. I’d also question the validity of some of the stuff I’ve seen, the concern being is that people post something because it fits what they want to believe, I have fallen fowl to this, and the damage has done, probably why Trump and Boris get away with so many lies.

The one that sticks in my mind was from a few years back when there was a story doing the rounds about a soldier in uniform being refused to be served in Tesco because it might offend the Muslims. It was made up, they gave a street name which didn’t exist in the area they were claiming and there was no Tesco on a street with that name. I went around on Facebook advising a load of people who put it up, one took it down, most ignored my comment and just left it there, one said well it’s the sorta thing they would do...

Your experience there doesn’t surprise me in the slightest. As the mistake you made there, was that you assumed that the truth would somehow make a difference. They lap up ****e like that without question, as they want to believe it, as it reinforces their existing prejudices, being offered the actual demonstrable truth is therefore of no interest.

The same sorts grab hold of any fig leaf handed to them in order to dismiss entire topics that they don’t want considered. For example, I’ve lost count of the number of people on social media when trying to pretend they’re deeply offended by the removal of a statue of a slave trader they’d never heard of, in a City they’d likely never visited or are likely to, have lobbed in, yeah but what about the pyramids though, when are they ripping them down! As if it’s some sort of zinger, when it has no equivalence whatsoever and is merely irrelevant whataboutery, but the thing is, it doesn’t matter, as it’s given them the excuse they needed to dismiss the entire debate about us having commemorations of actual slave traders on our Cities streets in 2020 ffs.

These kind of people have seemingly enjoyed being lied to by the likes of Trump and Johnson, as long as it upsets the ‘libs’ it’s all gravy. The thing is, once your start accepting and applauding being lied to by politicians, then don’t expect it to stop, only one day they’ll lie about something you don’t agree with, but it’ll be too late......

 

[Quite Possibly Raving]

Your experience there doesn’t surprise me in the slightest. As the mistake you made there, was that you assumed that the truth would somehow make a difference. They lap up ****e like that without question, as they want to believe it, as it reinforces their existing prejudices, being offered the actual demonstrable truth is therefore of no interest.

The same sorts grab hold of any fig leaf handed to them in order to dismiss entire topics that they don’t want considered. For example, I’ve lost count of the number of people on social media when trying to pretend they’re deeply offended by the removal of a statue of a slave trader they’d never heard of, in a City they’d likely never visited or are likely to, have lobbed in, yeah but what about the pyramids though, when are they ripping them down! As if it’s some sort of zinger, when it has no equivalence whatsoever and is merely irrelevant whataboutery, but the thing is, it doesn’t matter, as it’s given them the excuse they needed to dismiss the entire debate about us having commemorations of actual slave traders on our Cities streets in 2020 ffs.

These kind of people have seemingly enjoyed being lied to by the likes of Trump and Johnson, as long as it upsets the ‘libs’ it’s all gravy. The thing is, once your start accepting and applauding being lied to by politicians, then don’t expect it to stop, only one day they’ll lie about something you don’t agree with, but it’ll be too late......

And, of course, there is plenty of evidence that the pyramids weren't built by slaves, which makes that particularly odd argument all the more amusing.

 

[Staines R's]

Your experience there doesn’t surprise me in the slightest. As the mistake you made there, was that you assumed that the truth would somehow make a difference. They lap up ****e like that without question, as they want to believe it, as it reinforces their existing prejudices, being offered the actual demonstrable truth is therefore of no interest.

The same sorts grab hold of any fig leaf handed to them in order to dismiss entire topics that they don’t want considered. For example, I’ve lost count of the number of people on social media when trying to pretend they’re deeply offended by the removal of a statue of a slave trader they’d never heard of, in a City they’d likely never visited or are likely to, have lobbed in, yeah but what about the pyramids though, when are they ripping them down! As if it’s some sort of zinger, when it has no equivalence whatsoever and is merely irrelevant whataboutery, but the thing is, it doesn’t matter, as it’s given them the excuse they needed to dismiss the entire debate about us having commemorations of actual slave traders on our Cities streets in 2020 ffs.

These kind of people have seemingly enjoyed being lied to by the likes of Trump and Johnson, as long as it upsets the ‘libs’ it’s all gravy. The thing is, once your start accepting and applauding being lied to by politicians, then don’t expect it to stop, only one day they’ll lie about something you don’t agree with, but it’ll be too late......

To be fair though, I don’t think many are complaining about the actual act of Colstons statue being removed.....rather than the way it was done. Most I’ve seen are saying wtf it was doing there in the first place.
Not arguing the point about that actual statue....more the point of where it all ends.
Robert the Bruce, Queen Victoria, Baden Powell and Mandelas statue have all been put up as targets now......is that where we wanna go ?
Even had someone say They Young Ones’ (the comedy) was racist and should be banned....really ?

 

[Willhoops]

The thing is Wills, u can only look at things from a mostly level headed point of view....I saw the same story and it was quite obviously bollox and yeah it was just made up to stir **** and went viral.....but you could say that for any urban myth eg the Arab fella/lost wallet/ don’t go to London on Tuesday one. I had a good mate swear it was his Mrs best mate who it happened to...all a complete load of bollox of course....
Some people get their kicks from these sort of things....

The problem is from both sides are there aren’t enough level headed people about.

 

[Staines R's]

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Genuine question.....does anyone on here think this should be banned ?

 

[Staines R's]

The problem is from both sides are there aren’t enough level headed people about.

Sadly mate, I think you’ve hit the nail on the head

 

[Tobes]

To be fair though, I don’t think many are complaining about the actual act of Colstons statue being removed.....rather than the way it was done. Most I’ve seen are saying wtf it was doing there in the first place.
Not arguing the point about that actual statue....more the point of where it all ends.
Robert the Bruce, Queen Victoria, Baden Powell and Mandelas statue have all been put up as targets now......is that where we wanna go ?
Even had someone say They Young Ones’ (the comedy) was racist and should be banned....really ?

Only they are. I’ve seen it described as ‘erasing history’ which is a point that falls spectacularly on its arse when you point out that until protestors threw that statue into the briny, you’d never heard of the fella, and I’d wager you’ve learned more about the transatlantic slave trade in the last few days than you were ever taught at school. So their actions have actually brought the history to life.

As for the mention of other statues, they should be judged on their own merits, and any discussions around them should be local and not some national knee jerk reaction. All of the ones you’ve listed should not be included in any such debates imo.

 

[Willhoops]

Your experience there doesn’t surprise me in the slightest. As the mistake you made there, was that you assumed that the truth would somehow make a difference. They lap up ****e like that without question, as they want to believe it, as it reinforces their existing prejudices, being offered the actual demonstrable truth is therefore of no interest.

The same sorts grab hold of any fig leaf handed to them in order to dismiss entire topics that they don’t want considered. For example, I’ve lost count of the number of people on social media when trying to pretend they’re deeply offended by the removal of a statue of a slave trader they’d never heard of, in a City they’d likely never visited or are likely to, have lobbed in, yeah but what about the pyramids though, when are they ripping them down! As if it’s some sort of zinger, when it has no equivalence whatsoever and is merely irrelevant whataboutery, but the thing is, it doesn’t matter, as it’s given them the excuse they needed to dismiss the entire debate about us having commemorations of actual slave traders on our Cities streets in 2020 ffs.

These kind of people have seemingly enjoyed being lied to by the likes of Trump and Johnson, as long as it upsets the ‘libs’ it’s all gravy. The thing is, once your start accepting and applauding being lied to by politicians, then don’t expect it to stop, only one day they’ll lie about something you don’t agree with, but it’ll be too late......

to excuse Johnson’s constant lies the usual response I see and has been used on here is well all politicians lie One of the unbelievable things of recent years was the Tory social media campaign think it was 88% of all posts were at best misleading at worst flat out incorrect. In the same independent survey 0% of labours posts were found to be misleading or incorrect... yet do they care they are constantly being lied to.... nope.

 

[Staines R's]

Only they are. I’ve seen it described as ‘erasing history’ which is a point that falls spectacularly on its arse when you point out that until protestors threw that statue into the briny, you’d never heard of the fella, and it’d wager you’ve learned more about the transatlantic slave trade in the last few days than you were ever taught at school. So their actions have actually brought the history to life.

As for the mention of other statues, they should be judged on their own merits, and any discussions around them should be local and not some national knee jerk reaction. All of the ones you’ve listed should not be included in any such debates imo.

But Tobes, the ones I’ve listed HAVE been included in the debate (some already vandalised), because somebody, somewhere has deemed they should.....
I like to think I’m pretty well read....I’ve read many books about the slave trade, wars, genocides and politics.....I spied you’re right in what you say..and many aren’t.
Sad really

 

[Saints_Alive]

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Genuine question.....does anyone on here think this should be banned ?

No of course not, it is a satirical sketch of its' time. I lived through those times and what made it funny was that it was believable. We are laughing at the policeman's bigotry in the same way that Alf Garnett was laughed at for his outdated views.

 

[Tobes]

But Tobes, the ones I’ve listed HAVE been included in the debate (some already vandalised), because somebody, somewhere has deemed they should.....
I like to think I’m pretty well read....I’ve read many books about the slave trade, wars, genocides and politics.....I spied you’re right in what you say..and many aren’t.
Sad really

Yes mate, I know and wrongly so imo, but that’s the beauty of debate I suppose, as people can put it out there, and others can oppose. It’s being used as another fig leaf to avoid the crux of the original and completely valid point though, so those floating those kind of names are diluting the cause.

I wasn’t referring to you personally in that last post btw, merely the vast majority who are floating that balloon.

 

[Willhoops]

No of course not, it is a satirical sketch of its' time. I lived through those times and what made it funny was that it was believable. We are laughing at the policeman's bigotry in the same way that Alf Garnett was laughed at for his outdated views.

I went to an Al Murray pub landlord gig. It was frightening how many people didn’t get it

 

[Staines R's]

I

No of course not, it is a satirical sketch of its' time. I lived through those times and what made it funny was that it was believable. We are laughing at the policeman's bigotry in the same way that Alf Garnett was laughed at for his outdated views.

My view entirely.
But some are saying it is racist and should be banned.....and that’s what I’m trying to say.....where are we going with all this ?

 

[Staines R's]

Yes mate, I know and wrongly so imo, but that’s the beauty of debate I suppose, as people can put it out there, and others can oppose. It’s being used as another fig leaf to avoid the crux of the original and completely valid point though, so those floating those kind of names are diluting the cause.

I wasn’t referring to you personally in that last post btw, merely the vast majority who are floating that balloon.

I know you weren’t being personal, no worries. I like to think of myself as pretty level headed but will stick to my views.....some may say opinionated but I can live with that.

I did laugh the other day when someone showed me something they had been sent....

Basically that people with mixed race kids can still be racist.....because slave owners also had sex with their slaves and had mixed race kids too..........it’s all getting a bit bizarre, in my opinion.

 

[Willhoops]

I know you weren’t being personal, no worries. I like to think of myself as pretty level headed but will stick to my views.....some may say opinionated but I can live with that.

I did laugh the other day when someone showed me something they had been sent....

Basically that people with mixed race kids can still be racist.....because slave owners also had sex with their slaves and had mixed race kids too..........it’s all getting a bit bizarre, in my opinion.

What I find crazy and there are a couple of people on the wider forum who are prime example of some of the biggest xenophobes you’ll come across... who have foreign wives. Pompey knows who I mean