Match Day Thread Tottenham Hotspur v Middlesbrough
- Thread starter PleaseNotPoll
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Short answer? I don't know.
Long answer? I think the reality is that there are very few players with Eriksen's qualities in world football right now. You can probably count them on one hand and all of them are already at clubs bigger than us. In the PL, the likes of Grealish, Maddison and perhaps Mount have the scope to develop into that type of player, but all of them are miles off of Eriksen at his best and - In Jack's case especially - not even that young anymore. My gut feeling is Poch's Chapter 2 was meant to be a total departure from the 4231 system that got us so near yet so far in Chapter 1, and he intended to replace it with a far more direct system going 433 like Pool or with a diamond midfield. I think that's why we were in for Fernandes and Dybala at the end of the window - to provide upgrades for Lamela/Lucas alongside Kane and Son up top.
One thing is for certain and probably has been since Dembele left: we no longer have the personnel to play 4231 or indeed anything with a 2-man CM. I think this is what Maureen is referring to when he says he needs time not signings...it's all very well going after players but what type of player best suits which system? That ain't an easy question to answer, least of all in January. He needs to settle on a system and sharpish, and then work towards building it from the current players and the market. But no one way is obvious. We lack the CM to go back to 4231 or to play with WBs. We lack the FBs to mimic Pool's 433. We lack the CBs to go with an attacking diamond. Every single system has major obstacles ahead. I hope Maureen makes his mind up soon and Levy backs him because the current phase of bizarre experimentation is doing my head in.
H
Hoddle is a god
Guest
It’s clear that what we’re seeing is a period of experimentation where Mourinho is testing the boundaries of what he has available to him.
It may well be the case that he will never be able to find a system that accommodates the players we have in a way that makes us able to challenge consistently for top 4. At that point, I expect Mourinho to go to Levy with a list of players he needs to play the system that he would like to play.
But, at the moment, at least he’s trying to work with what he has available to him.
I really do wish people would get off Mourinho’s back and give him a chance. Or would these experts prefer that we still had Poch to take us into a relegation battle?
It may well be the case that he will never be able to find a system that accommodates the players we have in a way that makes us able to challenge consistently for top 4. At that point, I expect Mourinho to go to Levy with a list of players he needs to play the system that he would like to play.
But, at the moment, at least he’s trying to work with what he has available to him.
I really do wish people would get off Mourinho’s back and give him a chance. Or would these experts prefer that we still had Poch to take us into a relegation battle?
I'll take that question...
"I'd much rather that we brought in a manager who's a better fit for the club.....and.....well,.......not a complete twat."
I don't buy that he's trying out lots of different systems. Almost exclusively, we've played 4-2-3-1 under him. This is despite the blindingly obvious fact that we don't have the midfield personnel to play it to any decent level (see CK's post above) and away from home, we're absolutely ripped to pieces.
Two occasions immediately come to mind where we've played a different system - Bournemouth and yesterday (5-3-2). Having not seen the 4-3-3 again, since an ok performance, when will we see yesterday's set up again, if ever? What did we learn in one poor performance against an extremely limited Middlesbrough? Also, why the **** didn't we try to attack them?
Why are we looking for a system that includes Christian Eriksen and possibly to a lesser extent, Jan Vertonghen? Unless we're getting them to sign new deals, it's a complete waste of time. Plus, players who do represent our future are sitting on the bench whilst the potential departees turn in sub-standard performances. Not playing Davinson Sanchez is just mad.
This is all before the impending disaster that is the summer's transfer window. Mourinho will want senior players who are ready to play PL football. We buy young players, mostly from cheaper foreign leagues - mostly the players he doesn't want to use - Lo Celso, Sessegnon, Sanchez, Foyth, etc.
Mauricio Pochettino had to go but are we playing better now? After the 'new manager bounce' has worn off, we look exactly the same. Slow, appalling starts, shuffling players in a vain hope that something will click and limited results. If you can see why we appointed him, then hats off to you. I can see no such thing.
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H
Hoddle is a god
Guest
I'm not quite sure who you think we could have brought in who would have done any better than Mourinho is doing.
And, yes, I can see why we appointed him, and I would have thought it was blindingly obvious to everyone.
We simply don't have the money to undertake the kind of overhaul that is necessary to get us playing like City or 'Pool. We are struggling to match Chelsea, United and Arsenal, and probably Wolves. We need a manager who has the ability to find a system that works with what we got, or to find one that works with minimal acquisitions.
What we are clearly seeing is a period of experimentation and tweaking from Mourinho. I'm sure that he, like us, hopes he can find the magic formula, and we can all bask in the glory of a resurgent, attacking, all-conquering Spurs, but the reality is, as we all know, that we are sorely deficient in a couple of key areas. The trick, in the short to medium term is to find a system that accommodates our deficiencies, until the holes can be plugged.
Mourinho is as good as any manager in world football to work on such systems. Thankfully, he wanted to come to us, and I, for one, will give him a chance.
Personally I don't think it is the system/formation or the manager struggling to get a performance.
It is the player's confidence that needs a boost and that will only come with a decent game or two. Play youngsters in this team and that will break them.
Jose's waiting for that click.
It's the reason we only start playing any decent stuff once we concede. The players are scared. It's all very well asking why yesterday we weren't playing more attacking football, but the answer is that we were worried and only after conceding were we able to express ourselves a little more. We need to bring the fringe players into a winning team.
It happens to many teams and I think this has been our problem since we were knocked back after two minutes in the CL final.
It could also be a result of VAR. Players just don't know anymore what is happening-they have lost a certain amount of freedom. Every action is scrutinized. Fouls are checked for possible red, goals are chalked off because the ball accidentally hit an arm and an armpit is now part of the offside law. (And we are not getting penalty decisions go our way because the onfield ref have also lost their ability to make a decision )
And with this last point, it has affected many players in many teams. But not lower leagues; and that would also have affected our play yesterday as there wasn't VAR and their goal was possibly offside. Will there be VAR at the replay because that game will be at a PL ground? that would be consistency-not!
It is the player's confidence that needs a boost and that will only come with a decent game or two. Play youngsters in this team and that will break them.
Jose's waiting for that click.
It's the reason we only start playing any decent stuff once we concede. The players are scared. It's all very well asking why yesterday we weren't playing more attacking football, but the answer is that we were worried and only after conceding were we able to express ourselves a little more. We need to bring the fringe players into a winning team.
It happens to many teams and I think this has been our problem since we were knocked back after two minutes in the CL final.
It could also be a result of VAR. Players just don't know anymore what is happening-they have lost a certain amount of freedom. Every action is scrutinized. Fouls are checked for possible red, goals are chalked off because the ball accidentally hit an arm and an armpit is now part of the offside law. (And we are not getting penalty decisions go our way because the onfield ref have also lost their ability to make a decision )
And with this last point, it has affected many players in many teams. But not lower leagues; and that would also have affected our play yesterday as there wasn't VAR and their goal was possibly offside. Will there be VAR at the replay because that game will be at a PL ground? that would be consistency-not!
..."was as good". In recent years he's looked poorly equipped tactically to manage a top club, whilst falling out with everyone in the clubs he works for. United fans had a good look at him. I don't come across many who think sacking him was a mistake and he was a much better fit at that club than ours.
Where he's been successful, he's had money lavished on top signings on top wages, i.e. the type of players that we don't buy. The type of players we buy, he doesn't like using. He likes senior players and he's got plenty here. Unfortunately, he's not getting results or performances from them. Levy's not going to buy him a load of new senior players, so best he sorts them out.
I get that you like him but I'm judging him on what I've seen of him as a manager, since he became our manager. If he stops giving Aurier a free role, playing Dier in a midfield 2, leaving Davinson Sanchez out, preferring departing players to ones that should be our future, etc, etc, then I'm open to reconsidering that view. Currently, he's earning what he's getting from me.
Ridiculously the answer to this question, I believe is yes VAR will be used in the replay
Sorry, but if its just about boosting confidence then we have appointed the wrong man, if that is really the issue then we should have taken Harry back.
Jose has sapped the confidence from our young players, and his attempts at boosting the egos of our want our away and out of form senior players don't appear to be bearing fruit.
However he has had to endure the ridiculously busy Xmas/new year fixture list which does mean that he will have been almost exclusively using training time to prepare for matches rather than work on the changes to shape and tactics that may need time more time for the team to absorb.
He now has a week to prepare the team for what is the most difficult challenge at the moment - Liverpool, in the past Jose has had a plan for when the big teams come to town, so far we have had 2 such matches Utd (away) & Chelsea (home) the 2 you would have thought he would most up for, and we have come up massively short both times - If we are here saying the same again in a weeks time, I expect the more calls for patience from those who were in favour of his appointment, and for an increase in volume from those who didn't want him - Me I am still on the fence but he has a lot of work to do to convince me that he is still 'The Special one'! A result next Saturday would be a step in the right direction
H
Hoddle is a god
Guest
Yes, that Poch.
I didn't want him sacked, and I really do wish it never needed to come to that. However, it became apparent that he had become a divisive figure at the club, such that Levy clearly felt he could not take the club forward. Clearly, the fault did not lie wholly with Poch, as it's obvious that some of the players simply are not good enough at the level to which the club aspires.
Mourinho has inherited the same problems that Poch had, and some of you are hanging him out to dry even before he's had half a chance to get his house in order. That's your choice.
I choose to support the manager's efforts for the club, and to give him a proper go.
Quite frankly, some Spurs fans are acting like Gooners, which is not endearing.
Some of those players you speak of are those who Jose is seemingly trying to build his team around. It’s probably why he's being scrutinised so much.
Some of us fundamentally disagree with you, there's no need to get all huffy about it.
No, but when we watch the game I am sure that with the way we are currently defending, there will be a very similar incident that VAR will be able to adjudicate on!
So,what it all comes down to for a successful Spurs team is.....finding a couple of trillionaires interested in buying the rest of UEFA like...er………!
H
Hoddle is a god
Guest
Ticket news for the replay:
https://www.tottenhamhotspur.com/news/2020/january/spurs-v-middlesbrough-ticket-news/
£20 each, kids for £10, OAPs and 18-21 year olds for £15 or a family of four for £40, for anyone that wants to save a click.
https://www.tottenhamhotspur.com/news/2020/january/spurs-v-middlesbrough-ticket-news/
£20 each, kids for £10, OAPs and 18-21 year olds for £15 or a family of four for £40, for anyone that wants to save a click.