Match Day Thread Tottenham Hotspur v Middlesbrough

[humanbeingincroydon]

My main criticism would be about our lack of movement. Too many of our players were relying on their ball skills to beat players instead of moving the ball and getting themselves into a position to receive it. Dele was doing this, as was Aurier it was the other forwards that made them look bad by not looking for space. Push & run is where we were a long time ago and it will always work now as it did then.

This is what I don't get: against West Scam and Bournemouth this is exactly what we were doing, the issue was that we couldn't shut up shop effectively as we don't have a midfield capable of doing so

Since those games our solution to this is set up in a way that can shut up shop...but not move the ball quickly or, you know, score a few goals so we're in a position to shut up shop for the last twenty minutes

 

[Dier Hard]

Actually DH in many ways we have been relying on flashes of brilliance from out star players for some time. Whether that be Kane, Son, Lucas, or Dele. I don't think we have seen many solid team performances in those recent years and for me that is the big factor in why we don't get over the line. Since the Dembele hole appeared we have never been the same.

In 2019 (and seemingly 2020 so far) we’ve relied on flashes. Prior to that we were one of the best sides in the country to watch, Kane consistently scored goals, Eriksen consistently ran a game, Son grew massively after his first season and was regularly scoring. Dele has regressed since his first two seasons and has been a passenger more often than he has shown a flash of brilliance. It’s just not good enough if we have serious aspirations of being a top, top side.

As I said, he wouldn’t be the first I’d want out the door, far from it, but if a good offer came in I think we’d be silly to reject it.

 

[Spurf]

In 2019 (and seemingly 2020 so far) we’ve relied on flashes. Prior to that we were one of the best sides in the country to watch, Kane consistently scored goals, Eriksen consistently ran a game, Son grew massively after his first season and was regularly scoring. Dele has regressed since his first two seasons and has been a passenger more often than he has shown a flash of brilliance. It’s just not good enough if we have serious aspirations of being a top, top side.

As I said, he wouldn’t be the first I’d want out the door, far from it, but if a good offer came in I think we’d be silly to reject it.

We can agree to differ on Dele because for me he would be the last player I would want to shift, he is still very young and we shouldn't forget that. We can maybe agree in the slow decline of the whole team that has been masked by the quality of the individual players in the squad.

 

[Dier Hard]

We can agree to differ on Dele because for me he would be the last player I would want to shift, he is still very young and we shouldn't forget that. We can maybe agree in the slow decline of the whole team that has been masked by the quality of the individual players in the squad.

Definitely couldn’t agree with that. Kane is our only world class player (well maybe Eriksen if he weren’t pissing about) whilst Son is probably not far off from that level. Dele can have top class performances but over the course of the season he’s had more stinkers than blinders over the past couple of years.

 

[humanbeingincroydon]

The main problem Poch had this season is he became reactive rather than proactive around the time of the Leicester match, and the likely accelerated his departure (in much the same way it did AVB six years before) as he was spinning plates that he would have been balancing a year or so earlier

The issue for me is that Steptonho has gone the same way in a matter of a few weeks, while it took Poch six months, with his lineups and formations having a Sherwood quality to them...but Sherwood would have likely played Parrott and Skipp today

 

[Spurf]

Definitely couldn’t agree with that. Kane is our only world class player (well maybe Eriksen if he weren’t pissing about) whilst Son is probably not far off from that level. Dele can have top class performances but over the course of the season he’s had more stinkers than blinders over the past couple of years.

Fair enough Kane is almost without saying the top player. I am talking potential here rather than the finished article. Son is there Eriksen has been there but Dele is still on his way and he needs to be in a team that passes and moves in a fast way and this is not we are doing much of at the moment. As soon as we start moving the ball quickly then he comes into his own and becomes a match winner. Even Kane cannot perform if he doesn't get service as we have seen in recent games.

 

[Spurlock]

This lot couldn't pass water at this point.

The first half was another new low in a season packed full of them...and it's the same every match. Every away game, we start slowly, concede and then have to try to get back into it. Is he not capable of putting out a team that doesn't need 45 minutes to sort out the shambles?

Currently, I'd prefer to fail to fulfil our fixture against Liverpool and take a 0-3 loss, as we're going to get seriously hammered.

He only has what he has

You choose any formation you want and choose any XI you want

The core of the team is toothless in a Coma and can't pass for ****

 

[Dier Hard]

Fair enough Kane is almost without saying the top player. I am talking potential here rather than the finished article. Son is there Eriksen has been there but Dele is still on his way and he needs to be in a team that passes and moves in a fast way and this is not we are doing much of at the moment. As soon as we start moving the ball quickly then he comes into his own and becomes a match winner. Even Kane cannot perform if he doesn't get service as we have seen in recent games.

I completely agree that as of right now the football being played is atrocious which obviously doesn’t help. Neither manager seems to have had a legitimate game plan and style this season. But prior to 2019 where our form nosedived, we were playing some good football as a team yet Alli was still pretty inconsistent then as he is now. For me personally, I don’t think he can hold onto that potential tag for much longer. He’s 24 in a few months. When Kane was 24 he was smashing in goals for fun for the club, may have even been the season he broke Shearer’s calendar record. When Eriksen was 24 he was controlling games and racking up assists for fun (think he was 23/ 24 the season he hit 15 assists and a healthy amount of goals in the Prem). Dele is still miles off of those sorts of levels of consistency in my opinion and I’m beginning to feel he never will get there. A player with phenomenal talent don’t get me wrong but seemingly the inability to display it on a regular basis. It feels like for the most part, opposition now know how to handle him, he’ll still produce magic at times but in general the element of surprise he had as a young player is now gone.

 

[Spurlock]

Fair enough Kane is almost without saying the top player. I am talking potential here rather than the finished article. Son is there Eriksen has been there but Dele is still on his way and he needs to be in a team that passes and moves in a fast way and this is not we are doing much of at the moment. As soon as we start moving the ball quickly then he comes into his own and becomes a match winner. Even Kane cannot perform if he doesn't get service as we have seen in recent games.

The thing is if pass and move is his strength then why does he dwindle on it when he gets it? I'd understand if he was passing and moving but not getting it back. He's instead trying flicks which are risks and not great passes or he's dwindling.

This is my issue...it's not about formations. He's been told to play to his strengths as was evident when JM took over. However he has just resorted to type again...which is about his mentality

 

[Spurf]

I completely agree that as of right now the football being played is atrocious which obviously doesn’t help. Neither manager seems to have had a legitimate game plan and style this season. But prior to 2019 where our form nosedived, we were playing some good football as a team yet Alli was still pretty inconsistent then as he is now. For me personally, I don’t think he can hold onto that potential tag for much longer. He’s 24 in a few months. When Kane was 24 he was smashing in goals for fun for the club, may have even been the season he broke Shearer’s calendar record. When Eriksen was 24 he was controlling games and racking up assists for fun (think he was 23/ 24 the season he hit 15 assists and a healthy amount of goals in the Prem). Dele is still miles off of those sorts of levels of consistency in my opinion and I’m beginning to feel he never will get there. A player with phenomenal talent don’t get me wrong but seemingly the inability to display it on a regular basis. It feels like for the most part, opposition now know how to handle him, he’ll still produce magic at times but in general the element of surprise he had as a young player is now gone.

OK that's the core of the argument. Whether you believe it is lack of consitency by Dele or whether you believe he will develop that consistency. We can't know right now I just feel that his set of skills is so rare it's worth persisting with him. Remember Bale and how long it took him to blossom, different players different shakes.

 

[Dier Hard]

He only has what he has

You choose any formation you want and choose any XI you want

The core of the team is toothless in a Coma and can't pass for ****

A manager of his calibre should be doing better though.

When teams facing relegation hire Big Sam to save them and he duly does, it shows the manager has an impact.

After a promising start, Jose’s done nothing really different to Poch. We’re struggling/ losing against poor sides and I think just about every Spurs fan is dreading Saturday when Pool come to town. If we keep the deficit down to three we’d consider that a positive such is our bad form under Jose.

 

[Spurf]

The thing is if pass and move is his strength then why does he dwindle on it when he gets it? I'd understand if he was passing and moving but not getting it back. He's instead trying flicks which are risks and not great passes or he's dwindling.

This is my issue...it's not about formations. He's been told to play to streghts as was evident when JM took over. However he has just resorted to type again

Is it him or is it that the team are not moving. Look at the way the team played against West Ham in the first half and look how good he looked. If the team ticks he ticks he can't make it happen on his own like Kane can or Son can for example.

 

[Dier Hard]

OK that's the core of the argument. Whether you believe it is lack of consitency by Dele or whether you believe he will develop that consistency. We can't know right now I just feel that his set of skills is so rare it's worth persisting with him. Remember Bale and how long it took him to blossom, different players different shakes.

I think we’re seeing a side who now show how reliant they were on an in-form Eriksen. When he was on it so was everyone else, he was like a more advanced version of Modric. When Modric was on it, Tottenham were a joy to watch under ‘Arry.

You’ve mentioned how Dele needs to play in a pass and run system and Eriksen is/ was the only player at Spurs who could produce passes from out of this world. Gio in time may be someone who can do it and we know Tanguy can produce some great passes from a deeper role (when bloody fit! ) but as of yet we haven't got anyone on Eriksen’s former wavelength - and it’ll be tough to replicate that too, he’s first in both chances created and assists since he came to England.

So I guess we need to see if Alli can adapt or not without Eriksen. Kane and Son have. I hope Alli can but I’m doubtful.

 

["Thanks for that Brian"]

He only has what he has

You choose any formation you want and choose any XI you want

The core of the team is toothless in a Coma and can't pass for ****

If he couldn't manage the squad as it stands, he probably should have told Daniel Levy a couple of months ago and stayed home until the summer

His job is to manage anyone in a white shirt and get performances and results out of them. Currently, he's failing badly.

 

[Spurf]

I think we’re seeing a side who now show how reliant they were on an in-form Eriksen. When he was on it so was everyone else, he was like a more advanced version of Modric. When Modric was on it, Tottenham were a joy to watch under ‘Arry.

You’ve mentioned how Dele needs to play in a pass and run system and Eriksen is/ was the only player at Spurs who could produce passes from out of this world. Gio in time may be someone who can do it and we know Tanguy can produce some great passes from a deeper role (when bloody fit! ) but as of yet we haven't got anyone on Eriksen’s former wavelength - and it’ll be tough to replicate that too, he’s first in both chances created and assists since he came to England.

So I guess we need to see if Alli can adapt or not without Eriksen. Kane and Son have. I hope Alli can but I’m doubtful.

Yes agree with that, it's the engine room where we are lacking and it's slightly worrying that NDombele has had so many injury issues. Next season will tell us how long we need to get back to a nailed on top four or a struggle for top six.

 

[KingHotspur]

Edited for you. Needs to be benched - added nothing again. The inconsistency is worrying.

Who’s the alternative?

People keep saying drop Alli and don’t play Eriksen or Aurier but who can come in?

 

[PleaseNotPoll]

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It's only words, of course, but that's a really nice sentiment about Woodgate and Keane "coming home".
I hope the replay's sensible priced, so that there's a decent crowd for it.

 

[Citizen Kane.]

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It's only words, of course, but that's a really nice sentiment about Woodgate and Keane "coming home".
I hope the replay's sensible priced, so that there's a decent crowd for it.

I only caught the last 30mins. As soon as I saw that line-up I lost interest in subjecting myself to a miserable afternoon and took the kids out instead. Boro's goal looked marginally off but totally unsurprising to see that yet again it came from players pissing about in the middle of the park to get easily dispossessed (Alli this time), then a simple hoof over the top and a goal. It was exactly the same against Soton.

EDIT: Watching it back, Gazza should be coming off his line and narrowing the angle quicker than he did. Seemed to hesitate and check himself at a crucial moment. It's a shame but the past few games have confirmed that he's an excellent #2 but not good enough to replace Hugo, who himself isn't good enough for a top 4 side.

 

[remembercolinlee]

The new year RCL just wants to point out that...

A) the 1981 cup win (which ended with THAT Ricky Villa goal) began with a disappointing 1-1 away draw to a lower league QPR team managed by a former spurs player (Venables).
Just saying like...

and

B) How posh does RCL sound refering to himself in the third person?

 

["Thanks for that Brian"]

The new year RCL just wants to point out that...

A) the 1981 cup win (which ended with THAT Ricky Villa goal) began with a disappointing 1-1 away draw to a lower league QPR team managed by a former spurs player (Venables).
Just saying like...

and

B) How posh does RCL sound refering to himself in the third person?

I was at that QPR game. I think that I remember Tony Galvin really started to come into his own and it saw the end of Terry Yorath's brief time with us.

Today should have seen at least one of Parrott, Tanganga or Skipp on the pitch.

The more I see of Mourinho's management, the more I think that he'd only have played Yorath and great, young players like Galvin wouldn't have got a look in.

Given that any signings we make are going to be like Galvin, Foyth, Lo Celso and not like Yorath, Matic, Ibrabimovic, etc, I do wonder WTF he's doing here?