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Maybe Amazon will 'pay' for us to win the cup or better still the champions league

Wouldn't surprise me in the slightest. Can you imagine how foolish they feel after the season we've had? Literally no-one is going to watch that documentary aside from Spurs fans and die-hard football geeks. You can see a pattern emerging vis-a-vis these documentaries. The first few experiments (Sunderland on Netflix and Citeh and Juve on Amazon) were relatively safe bets...the conclusions (relegation & misery in one, trophies and glory in the other) were pretty much inevitable, it was a matter of when and how rather than if.

Unless I am much mistaken, the Second Generation incarnations of these documentaries (Leeds and then Spurs) were far closer to a huge gamble. 'Take us Home' bet the house on Leeds winning promotion back to the promised land after so many years in the wilderness, under the explosive leadership of Bielsa. They even hired Russel fecking Crowe to narrate it for feck's sake. And then Made in Tottenham - clearly a gamble that in a shiny new stadium with shiny new signings, we would finally achieve the giant-killing we'd been threatening for so long under Poch. But neither were to be, and now Amazon look like clueless muppets, sinking millions into documentaries watched by mere thousands when they were meant to be blockbuster. In hindsight, they'd have been better off following Sheff Utd or Wolves this season for a gamble, or Liverpool to play it safe.
 
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Over the past 5 years, the following have been established as (quote Rafa Benitez) "facts" (end quote):

1) 2015: There is corruption in football, all the way to the very top.
2) 2017: There are narratives at play in football, and officials are both aware of and sometimes actively contributing to them (Mark "look at me everybody" Clattenburg).
3) 2018: The standard of officiating has sunk so pitifully low that there was an overwhelming groundswell of support for the introduction of technology, otherwise known as VAR.

Taken on their own, the above 3 facts are relatively innocuous. You need a combination of the three to create an orchestrated effort almost impossible to trace and even more impossible to derail.

As I said in a post earlier this season: am I certain that there is bias in favour of certain teams? No. Would I be surprised to wake up tomorrow to headlines of 'FA Scandal!" plastered all over the back pages? Equally, no.

What worries me more than any of the above is a closer look at the money-driven links connecting multiple elements of the footballing world which don't necessarily make corruption inevitable but do make it far, far easier to direct and incentivise. In the early days of the TV mega-money era, we sat back and watched as one of the biggest providers of football coverage and news - Sky Sports - launched a gambling wing - Sky Bet - and then slowly as the years ticked by, interlinked the two. So much so that we are now at a ridiculous stage where you can open their website and one tab is reporting x looks likely to move to y, while the other tab is offering bets on x moving to y with odds clearly fixed according to the coverage offered in tab 1. Seems innocent enough but personally I have always found it disturbing to the point of being unethical. In securities fraud terms, it strikes me as a Pump & Dump scheme.

But lately even more disturbing developments have occurred - again, without a peep from Joe Public. I'm sure many of us enjoyed the excellent Amazon Prime coverage over Boxing Day. But isn't it a bit unsettling that the same company have started making documentaries about all and sundry? Is it really all that far fetched to envision a subtle yet intrusive directive from the very top to ensure x,y & z happen in a group of games in order to make 'great TV' from the documentary being filmed at the same time? And is it really all that far-fetched, as football becomes ever more Hollywoodised, to envision the retail giants interlinking its sports coverage department with its merchandise department? Much in the same way as Sky Sports 'uses' its own coverage to 'pump' select stories before 'dumping' the odds on its gambling clientele, could we one day see Amazon use its coverage to 'pump' a certain team's merchandise (also available on Prime, with same day delivery of course) before 'dumping' it on its retail clientele?

It may sound sinister, but there is no question that a great narrative makes great TV. Leicester winning the league, City winning the treble, Liverpool winning the league after 30 years...these are gripping stories. What Amazon are doing is taking niche TV and financing it to go mainstream, turning it into documentaries which (they hope) will compete with the best Netflix series out there. And once that goes mainstream, the capital potential in the game will increase exponentially, thereby also increasing exponentially the chance that someone, anyone at the the very top of the ivory tower will start orchestrating a linkage of the 3 ingredients above: exploiting the corrupt heart of football by driving the 'best TV' narratives and securing both via an unseen technological system answerable to no-one.

Rant over. Tin foil hat back in drawer.
Wouldn't surprise me in the slightest. Can you imagine how foolish they feel after the season we've had? Literally no-one is going to watch that documentary aside from Spurs fans and die-hard football geeks. You can see a pattern emerging vis-a-vis these documentaries. The first few experiments (Sunderland on Netflix and Citeh and Juve on Amazon) were relatively safe bets...the conclusions (relegation & misery in one, trophies and glory) were pretty much inevitable, it was a matter of when and how rather than if.

Unless I am much mistaken, the Second Generation incarnations of these documentaries (Leeds and then Spurs) were far closer to a huge gamble. 'Take us Home' bet the house on Leeds winning promotion back to the promised land after so many years in the wilderness, under the explosive leadership of Bielsa. They even hired Russel fecking Crowe to narrate it for feck's sake. And then Made in Tottenham - clearly a gamble that in a shiny new stadium with shiny new signings, we would finally achieve the giant-killing we'd been threatening for so long under Poch. But neither were to be, and now Amazon look like clueless muppets, sinking millions into documentaries watched by mere thousands when they were meant to be blockbuster. In hindsight, they'd have been better off following Sheff Utd or Wolves this season for a gamble, or Liverpool to play it safe.
Wont happen at Liverpool, not whike Klopp's there at least, hes already said on camera hed leave if cameras were put behind the scenes after the half time team talk of salzburg was broadcast.

You and c kane are bang on though, it deffo has the scope to go that way into a whole different type of bias or corruption.
 
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Wont happen at Liverpool, not whike Klopp's there at least, hes already said on camera hed leave if cameras were put behind the scenes after the half time team talk of salzburg was broadcast.

You and c kane are bang on though, it deffo has the scope to go that way into a whole different type of bias or corruption.
Wasn't Liverpool the leaders in this with Rogers?
 
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Wasn't Liverpool the leaders in this with Rogers?
Yeh or deffo one of the 1st, what a ****ing disaster it was for him and us really, totally undermines everyone and leaves manager club players open to scrutiny they really shouldn't be worrying about.

Ive seen a clip from the city one with arteta telling the midfielders to foul during transitions <laugh>
 
Yeh or deffo one of the 1st, what a ****ing disaster it was for him and us really, totally undermines everyone and leaves manager club players open to scrutiny they really shouldn't be worrying about.

Ive seen a clip from the city one with arteta telling the midfielders to foul during transitions <laugh>

That should make Arsenal successful again. They always like choppers in their teams!
 
That should make Arsenal successful again. They always like choppers in their teams!
It always helps to have a ****house or two in the side, Robertson for us deffo has a nasty streak but channels it correctly. Mainly by winding up opponents rather than biting them<laugh>
 
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I don't think we've had a nut in the team since Graham Roberts. We've had some girl scouts.Still got a few!
Dele has it in him, and it makes him a better player imo if anyone can get that out and teach him how to use it its Mourinho, with that nasty streak put to good use rather than say petulance and cards and he could be a real player again.
 
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I don't think we've had a nut in the team since Graham Roberts. We've had some girl scouts.Still got a few!

That's a long time Smithy! I agree with Sucky Dele has it, Vertonghen certainly does too. Others since Roberts - Scott Parker, further back we had Pat Van Den Hauwe, and from the same era Sedgeley, Howells and Stewart and even Gazza could look after themselves
 
Over the past 5 years, the following have been established as (quote Rafa Benitez) "facts" (end quote):

1) 2015: There is corruption in football, all the way to the very top.
2) 2017: There are narratives at play in football, and officials are both aware of and sometimes actively contributing to them (Mark "look at me everybody" Clattenburg).
3) 2018: The standard of officiating has sunk so pitifully low that there was an overwhelming groundswell of support for the introduction of technology, otherwise known as VAR.

Taken on their own, the above 3 facts are relatively innocuous. You need a combination of the three to create an orchestrated effort almost impossible to trace and even more impossible to derail.

As I said in a post earlier this season: am I certain that there is bias in favour of certain teams? No. Would I be surprised to wake up tomorrow to headlines of 'FA Scandal!" plastered all over the back pages? Equally, no.

What worries me more than any of the above is a closer look at the money-driven links connecting multiple elements of the footballing world which don't necessarily make corruption inevitable but do make it far, far easier to direct and incentivise. In the early days of the TV mega-money era, we sat back and watched as one of the biggest providers of football coverage and news - Sky Sports - launched a gambling wing - Sky Bet - and then slowly as the years ticked by, interlinked the two. So much so that we are now at a ridiculous stage where you can open their website and one tab is reporting x looks likely to move to y, while the other tab is offering bets on x moving to y with odds clearly fixed according to the coverage offered in tab 1. Seems innocent enough but personally I have always found it disturbing to the point of being unethical. In securities fraud terms, it strikes me as a Pump & Dump scheme.

But lately even more disturbing developments have occurred - again, without a peep from Joe Public. I'm sure many of us enjoyed the excellent Amazon Prime coverage over Boxing Day. But isn't it a bit unsettling that the same company have started making documentaries about all and sundry? Is it really all that far fetched to envision a subtle yet intrusive directive from the very top to ensure x,y & z happen in a group of games in order to make 'great TV' from the documentary being filmed at the same time? And is it really all that far-fetched, as football becomes ever more Hollywoodised, to envision the retail giants interlinking its sports coverage department with its merchandise department? Much in the same way as Sky Sports 'uses' its own coverage to 'pump' select stories before 'dumping' the odds on its gambling clientele, could we one day see Amazon use its coverage to 'pump' a certain team's merchandise (also available on Prime, with same day delivery of course) before 'dumping' it on its retail clientele?

It may sound sinister, but there is no question that a great narrative makes great TV. Leicester winning the league, City winning the treble, Liverpool winning the league after 30 years...these are gripping stories. What Amazon are doing is taking niche TV and financing it to go mainstream, turning it into documentaries which (they hope) will compete with the best Netflix series out there. And once that goes mainstream, the capital potential in the game will increase exponentially, thereby also increasing exponentially the chance that someone, anyone at the the very top of the ivory tower will start orchestrating a linkage of the 3 ingredients above: exploiting the corrupt heart of football by driving the 'best TV' narratives and securing both via an unseen technological system answerable to no-one.

Rant over. Tin foil hat back in drawer.

surely the corruption would want you boys to win. The darlings of england with english players. The downtrodden club come good in their brand new fantastic home after 60 years of hurt (i made that figure up). The team who were playing the most attractive footie with a gent of a manager (poch).

lets not forget, as much as LiVARpool are benefitting, it's certainly in the interest of TV to have them drop points and make the title race more interesting
 
surely the corruption would want you boys to win. The darlings of england with english players. The downtrodden club come good in their brand new fantastic home after 60 years of hurt (i made that figure up). The team who were playing the most attractive footie with a gent of a manager (poch).

lets not forget, as much as LiVARpool are benefitting, it's certainly in the interest of TV to have them drop points and make the title race more interesting
I think you are missing the point.
Yes , Amazon want/thought we would be successful this season- but there are other forces here playing the game. And Spurs don't contribute to the corruption. The general media had decided that ''Poch = great manager never won a trophy''.
Now we have a manager who is a serial winner and that will/ should be the new narrative. And that is why Amazon brought him in. To at least win a cup this year. That is why we were given 'the favourable ' draw in the next round of the CL. ( when was the last time that happened?)
The corrupt system can't guarantee anything but they can push towards their favoured result.
 
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I think you are missing the point.
Yes , Amazon want/thought we would be successful this season- but there are other forces here playing the game. And Spurs don't contribute to the corruption. The general media had decided that ''Poch = great manager never won a trophy''.
Now we have a manager who is a serial winner and that will/ should be the new narrative. And that is why Amazon brought him in. To at least win a cup this year. That is why we were given 'the favourable ' draw in the next round of the CL. ( when was the last time that happened?)
The corrupt system can't guarantee anything but they can push towards their favoured result.
Will we get the usual Amazon money back guarantee, no quibbles if Spurs don't win anything.?
 
surely the corruption would want you boys to win. The darlings of england with english players. The downtrodden club come good in their brand new fantastic home after 60 years of hurt (i made that figure up). The team who were playing the most attractive footie with a gent of a manager (poch).

lets not forget, as much as LiVARpool are benefitting, it's certainly in the interest of TV to have them drop points and make the title race more interesting

They did. And that's probably why they gambled on it happening and under Poch the media darling. After City's domestic clean sweep and Liverpool's CL glory, the next Big Narrative was probably Spurs' rise to glory. But things went south quicker and more brutally than anyone envisioned. It is no coincidence that there were lots of reports saying that Poch spent most of the summer and autumn in a foul mood because he - a notoriously private individual who likes a notoriously tight ship - was sick of having cameras everywhere.

So again, I don't think this was the case but it wouldn't surprise me in the slightest had some bigwig Amazon executive, seeking to rescue a terrible situation for his company, pulled Levy to one side over a cocktail and said "Mourinho would be good for business. Very good." Then maybe he raised an eyebrow and his glass, Gatsby style, before sauntering off. Because let's be honest, it would make great TV. Mourinho, seeking personal redemption, leads Spurs - now seeking their own redemption - back into the top 4, maybe picking up the FA cup along the way.

Your point about Pool is a good one and i know I'm still in tin hat territory here but...

Mark "look at me everyone" Clattenburg's comments after the Battle of the Bridge made it worryingly clear that he didn't want to go down in the history books as the Grinch who stole Leicester's fairytale. I wonder how many officials - both in and outside the VAR room - feel a similar pressure not to ruin Pool's 30 year homecoming?
At a simpler level, it isn't possible to mitigate for so many factors at once. That Pool are 13 points clear is as much down to how crap everyone else has been as it has to do with them getting loads of decisions in their favour. And the former can't be mitigated for. Unless the people mitigating have access to all of the variables at the same time. Like Amazon. Covering all fixtures simultaneously. Cue X Files theme.
 
surely the corruption would want you boys to win. The darlings of england with english players. The downtrodden club come good in their brand new fantastic home after 60 years of hurt (i made that figure up). The team who were playing the most attractive footie with a gent of a manager (poch).

lets not forget, as much as LiVARpool are benefitting, it's certainly in the interest of TV to have them drop points and make the title race more interesting
Except we're not the darlings, we're seen as the upstarts who keep getting the the way of Sky's golden boys who should shut up and know their place

For the most obvious example, when a Man Utd or a Chelsea play badly and win the pundits all come rushing out to say how that makes them great teams because they can get results regardless of how poor their performance was - yet when we do the same thing, which is as much the case under Poch as it is with Steptonho, the pundits come rushing out to say how we didn't deserve to win

Of course there is the obvious explanation as to why this bias is reinforced, as the vast majority of pundits in this country played for either Man Utd or Liverpool so are obviously going to be biased in favour of their former team, and after those clubs the next highest ratio of clubs-to-pundits is ex-Goons, while the only ex-Spurs pundit on Sky or BT is Jermaine Jenas...and a cursory search for his name on Twitter reveals him habitually being dogpiled on for what he says by fans of...well you can guess the clubs
 
Except we're not the darlings, we're seen as the upstarts who keep getting the the way of Sky's golden boys who should shut up and know their place

I think you're right, but there is a growing gap in perspective between the relatively narrow view of pundits and Sky - who only move within the sphere of football as a sport, and the likes of Amazon and Netflix, who move within the sphere of football as a global commerce, as trade-able as smart phones, designer clothing and reality TV shows. The former doesn't want the established order of things to change, simply because the largest quota of established football fans who follow the EPL support one of the Big 4. That hasn't changed in decades. But Amazon, as it once upon a time did with books, then music, then sundries, and now TV, is seeking to open the EPL to the hundreds of millions across the globe - especially in the USA - who are not established football fans. And they won't be 'hooked' without high drama and a plot to rival Hollywood's best. Hence the (failed) drama about Leeds. Hence the (doomed) drama about us. Forgive the pun, but it's a completely different ball game now. And the mono-syllabic pundits sitting on Sky's couch haven't got a clue what's about to hit, let alone how to navigate it.