How can you be so sure that this incident wasn't anything to do with a lack of beds etc.? The trust involved have even come out and said so, and that they had their busiest week in years as some form of explanation. Do you think they're lying? Still don't see why staff should lose their jobs. Or why we should listen to you saying "I'm telling you!" When you're not offering any evidence to the contrary. Why exactly should we just 'trust you' on this?
Last word PS. Your repetition of "staging" is the drip drip of spaffer Johnson's "get brexit done" mantra and just as much if not more a load of ****ing bollocks. I mean that sincerely folks.
You are completely wrong and, as I said yesterday, out of touch with reality. As was said above, the NHS is being made to fail through lack of funding so that people like you will lose faith with it, and the staff who run it. You are also calling RJ a liar, which is a bit much to be honest., and I think you should apologise.
Mate..........the whole point of the matter is it was done for effect. It would seem that I have been proved correct in that it wasn’t a nurse that put the child on the floor. Which has been the main stay of my argument. My own personal experiences know how pushed the NHS is. I’m not saying they’re not never have done. You have to admit it’s got people talking. I cannot prove nor can I disprove what actually happened. Which ever way you look at it it should not have been allowed to happen. I said no nurse would have done that which has now been made clear. It’s in the nurses which are taking the brunt of this argument not the Tories. I’m just surprised you can’t see that.
Many years ago, when I did first aid training, it was recommended that anyone who you suspected might pass out, would be safer sat on the floor, (in the absence of a seat that would prevent falling, ie sofa, armchair etc) as there would be less harm done than if they had fallen from height, from an armless chair for example. This lad, as it turns out, had tonsillitis and flu, which in my humble opinion would have raised the possibility of him passing out, owing to the probability of a high temperature and dehydration, and put him at risk of falling to the ground and potentially adding a broken bone to his other problems. I think his mum did the right thing. A few years ago, a visiting friend had a seizure in my home. She was sat on a dining chair and before I realised what was happening, she hit the concrete (carpet covered) floor with one hell of a bump, including bumping her head. When the seizure stopped I put her into the recovery position, seconds before she vomited her lunch all over the carpet. When she had recovered a bit, I persuaded her to stay where she was until after the ambulance had arrived, which she did. Oddly enough she had never had a seizure before and she hasn’t had one since.
strewth buddy you are way out of line...........you are reading into things that are just not there. I never intended or even made a suggestion any one was a liar so no apology to make. A lot of what I said has been proved correct. I still think that it was staged or at best someone took advantage. You can’t prove it either way nor can I. So why not just leave it there
I’m not saying it was but it doesn’t matter if it was staged. The issue, surely, is that hospitals are so stretched that they lack the equipment needed to prevent this sort of thing happening. No one should be having a go at the mother if she did stage this. The anger should be aimed solely at the government for the 9 years of unnecessary and deliberate cuts.
If the alternative given to the mother was a small chair, or on her own lap, then it seems like the Mum took a sensible choice as the child would rest easier lying down, especially as it was for 4 hours. It has got people talking though, I'll give you that Beddy, but the reason it has got people talking on this thread is mainly because you declared that it was a political stunt to make the Tories look bad. The Nurses are not being blamed by anyone except you, who said that they should be retrained and the department closed. If you can't see why this happening is a disgrace then there is no reasoning with you. I'm going to make the assumption that you're not a Tory troll, even though you sound just like one
How can you say you've been proved correct and then later say no one can prove it either way My original point was why you felt staff should lose their jobs or why we should just believe you that it would 'never happen' when you've offered no evidence to support your point. Sorry Beddy but you're coming across as a bit of a shambles here.
And I stand by that......but as I said I could not believe a nurse would do that...and proved right it wasn’t. I’m not blaming the mother if she chose to do that but it was her choice not the hospitals. Sad if she had to make that choice agreed.
It wasn't a nurse who suggested we put our daughter on the floor, however the alternative for us would have been to have tried to put her in a chair after she was taken from the trolley. The point is Beddy, be it chair or lap or floor, these were the only options we had because there were no beds. A nurse came by a couple of times to see if my girl was still stable and certainly didn't suggest that we pick her up and prop her up on a plastic chair because there were no other sensible options. You cling to little elements of the story, such as the bit in bold and use it to strengthen your idea that it was a political stunt, and still completely miss the point of why the situation happened at all...
No one (except you) ever claimed it was. The original story was that the mother had put the child there because there was nowhere else. You started ranting and raving about sacking nurses, no one else did. The hospital apologised because there weren’t enough beds, which led to this incident. The point of the story was that there is a shortage of beds after decades of underfunding, especially in the last 9 years. But you tried to make out the whole thing was staged, and that everyone should be sacked.
my ranting and raving as you call it was that if a nurse put her on the floor, and if others condoned it. You will not convince me that an advantage wasn’t taken of a mother’s choice. I agree whole heartedly she shouldn't have had to make that choice. I also agree a lot of money needs to be put into the NHS. I equally agree that there is still a lot of wasted money I’ve been told that could be put to better use. The sacking wasn’t necessary because it was not the staff that condoned putting the child on the floor while being treated.
I think when the accused itself admits fault it's time to put away the unfounded conspiracy theories and actually believe the story. The evidence is pretty overwhelming that this one is true. Coincidentally, heres another A&E story from an American I watched the other week ( he tends to do America vs UK or other country comparisons of various things) This just happened a couple of weeks ago and I can vouch its not a politically motivated video. Twice tried to get pain killers and was twice forgotten about and left in agony. He finishes off by saying he still prefers the NHS to health insurance as worrying about what it would cost for his treatment would have been worse.
I’m sure the staff are relieved that you no longer think they should all be sacked. I can certainly agree about the wasted money though. The section I ran had a consumables budget of, in 2013 when I retired, about £1.3 million, 95% of which went on chemical reagents for blood tests which we purchased from Roche Diagnostics, a subdivision of Roche Pharmaceuticals. I accept they have huge overheads, and spend a vast amount on research and development, but their gross profit margin has been estimated at 54%. Not a bad return, I’m sure you would agree, as a businessman. Just imagine how much better off the NHS would be if it wasn’t forced to pay over the odds for equipment, consumables, and drugs from private companies!
Pertinent to today's in depth discussion a fact check with verifiable sources. Are the tories responsible for the loss of 17,000 bed spaces over 10 years? https://www.theguardian.com/politic...p-uSEBXC9cmCaMTJk0-3zmtTYc#Echobox=1575984958 Couple of quotes, read the full article for more info. DON'T GET SICK! "The NHS England data series on the number of available and occupied beds open overnight that are under the care of consultants in general and acute hospitals, maternity centres and units specialising in the care of patients with mental health problems and learning disabilities, showed there were 144,455 available beds in April to June 2010, when the Conservative-led coalition came to power. In the most recent quarter, July to September 2019, there were 127,225 beds available – 17,230 fewer available beds." "Verdict The 17,000 figure is correct but not a like-for-like comparison. However, the number of hospital beds has fallen considerably since the Conservatives came to power, as occupancy rates have risen. Experts such as Dr Susan Crossland, the president of the Society for Acute Medicine, have warned the loss of beds will make it harder for hospital staff to provide proper care."
Since the Tory Party came to power the NHS has lost 17,000 hospital unit beds, which include, surgical, maternity and beds previously available for patients suffering with mental health issues, eating disorders and learning difficulties. In the same period the population has increased by 8,000,000 people. The population has aged, therefore placing increased demands on an already fragile NHS, which has now gone beyond breaking point in many areas. Continued pressure on hospitals is also due to the cuts in social care and facilities that were previously managed by external NHS units. The enormous pressure the NHS and its staff are under can not be sustained without there being catastrophic consequences. All this has resulted in 5,449 deaths of patients who have been left on trolleys waiting for treatment, since 2016. Many doctors, nurses, paramedics, porters and other essential staff are at breaking point. My future daughter in-law who is a junior doctor at a very large local hospital has repeatedly said that if there isn’t a huge sea change in the way the NHS is funded and managed we are going to have a disaster on our hands. These stories that are coming out of the NHS are not fabrications, not lies to win or increase the chances of votes, they are what is happening. To be perfectly honest it doesn’t matter who does, or who doesn’t believe it. It doesn’t matter who uses it for political gain, or who flatly denies it. What does matter is that the NHS as it was, before all the cuts and political point scoring started, is fully restored to a health service that is well equipped, well staffed and is free to all those in need. It is one of the fundamental rights as a citizen of this country and it should be beyond the realms of political and media point scoring. They say we only really appreciate something when it is no longer there. I don’t want anyone to have to appreciate the NHS in that way. We are all going to need it at some point, so fight to protect it, treasure it and appreciate those who give so much of themselves to make it work.
