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The RDBD said:
1. <X>ism - a belief/notion/theory based on or relating to <X> .
<X>ist - one who advocates/believes/proposes notions/theories based on / relating to <X> .

So when <X> = Race :

Where is the inference that "racist" = "race hater" ??

There is none.
Therefore a certain group of people are engaging in what George Orwell called in
his book "1984" acts of "Newspeak" .

You can replace "ism/ist" with "phobia/phobe" and the premise is exactly the same.


2. On the Suarez/Evra incident

a) Suarez made a racially OFFENSIVE remark to Evra.

b) From it there is no inference as to what (true) "racist" ideas Suarez subscribes to,
or that he is in fact a (afro-caribbean) "race hater"

c) Suarez should not have done (a) both on principle, and the fact that a certain group of
people exist who do neither understand nor care about (b) lest it gets in their way of
attempting to make trouble for others at the first proverbial scent of blood.
Click to expand...
I think this is all correct. But if racism is to have it's original meaning (effectively a belief that one race is superior to another) then we probably need another word for someone who discriminates between races....racialist?
And making isolated racialist comments doesn't prove someone to be a racialist.
 
The RDBD said:
Anti-Semitism is to be in opposition to Jews.
The question then becomes : why is someone in opposition to Jews ??


"Again people are attempting to merge criticisms of Israel with hatred of Jews."

Or (according to my Jewish acquaintances who are long-time Labour supporters)
using anti-Israel sentiment to mask actual hatred of / action against Jews.
Click to expand...
It's actually quite easy to see if that is happening.....and in Labour it generally isn't. You would expect most Labour supporters to oppose the current Israeli government but almost none of those are antisemitic. The few that are should be and are being expelled.
 
PowerSpurs said:
I think this is all correct. But if racism is to have it's original meaning (effectively a belief that one race is superior to another) then we probably need another word for someone who discriminates between races....racialist?
Click to expand...

Race superiority/prejudice/bias etc.

True racism nowadays should effectively be focused on the human physical
condition (notions on certain illnesses affecting certain races badly, which
medical treatment for universal ailments could be detrimental) .

Conversely, untangling the conflation of race and culture/nation is another must.
 
Spurf said:
RDBD I am interested in your point of view on this but please explain your position.
Would I be right to say that you think racism needs defining?
For example people are prone to describe Islamophobia as racist when it's clearly not about a race but a religion. They also seek to merge disagreement or even contempt for Islam with abuse of Islamic individuals, when it should be treated differently. In other words it's ok to hate the religion but it's not ok to hate followers of it.
The same with so called antisemitism. Again people are attempting to merge criticisms of Israel with hatred of Jews. many Jews themselves are anti Israel for example.
All of this dilutes racism and almost helps to promote it rather than stop it. I think it's important for these terms to be difined clearly and at the moment most effort appears to be going into clouding the issues.
Click to expand...
Islamophobia and antisemitism often have racist components, though.
A lot of the **** thrown at Muslims is just poorly veiled racism against Asians and antisemitism rarely has anything to do with Judaism itself.
They may not be identical, but racism, Islamophobia and antisemitism often stem from the same ****ty place.
 
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The RDBD said:
True racism nowadays should effectively be focused on the human physical
condition (notions on certain illnesses affecting certain races badly, which
medical treatment for universal ailments could be detrimental) .
Click to expand...
Isn't that just a fact? Sickle cell anemia springs to mind.
 
The RDBD said:
1. <X>ism - a belief/notion/theory based on or relating to <X> .
<X>ist - one who advocates/believes/proposes notions/theories based on / relating to <X> .

So when <X> = Race :

Where is the inference that "racist" = "race hater" ??

There is none.
Therefore a certain group of people are engaging in what George Orwell called in
his book "1984" acts of "Newspeak" .

You can replace "ism/ist" with "phobia/phobe" and the premise is exactly the same.


2. On the Suarez/Evra incident

a) Suarez made a racially OFFENSIVE remark to Evra.

b) From it there is no inference as to what (true) "racist" ideas Suarez subscribes to,
or that he is in fact a (afro-caribbean) "race hater"

c) Suarez should not have done (a) both on principle, and the fact that a certain group of
people exist who do neither understand nor care about (b) lest it gets in their way of
attempting to make trouble for others at the first proverbial scent of blood.
Click to expand...
I think that is utter twaddle. So a racist is someone who advocates/believes/proposes notions/theories based on race? You're suggesting that could be totally benign. The only people who advocate anything of the sort are people who think one race is superior to another and so hate may not be the right word although it's not far removed.

Same with Suarez. Only someone who thinks he is superior due to his race would say what he said and superiority breeds contempt and contempt breeds hatred.
 
SpursDisciple said:
I think that is utter twaddle. So a racist is someone who advocates/believes/proposes notions/theories based on race? You're suggesting that could be totally benign.
Click to expand...

Sickle cell anaema is an affliction that is mainly confined to the afro-caribbean race.

I believe the condition may be genetically tied to melanin content in the body
(which is why the condition is so rare in other racial groups - caucasian etc) .

This is a notion based on race. Therefore "racism" .
No malign outcome occurs from this notion. Therefore "totally benign" .

QED (on many levels) .
 
The RDBD said:
Sickle cell anaema is an affliction that is mainly confined to the afro-caribbean race.

I believe the condition may be genetically tied to melanin content in the body
(which is why the condition is so rare in other racial groups - caucasian etc) .

This is a notion based on race. Therefore "racism" .
No malign outcome occurs from this notion. Therefore "totally benign" .

QED (on many levels) .
Click to expand...
That's not what racism means, though.
 
PleaseNotPoll said:
Isn't that just a fact? Sickle cell anemia springs to mind.
Click to expand...

Lots of "facts" were used in days of yore by race supremacists.
Fortunately the scientific method monotonically raises the bar
year by year (the facts of then are now nothing more than poor science now) .
 
The RDBD said:
Islam is a religion, not a racial group.

That would be some kind of idiot / nasty piece of work who
conflates the two (their hated or their definition of "Islamophobia" ) .
Click to expand...

I think Islam was a man written religion for men only. Women were/are regarded as 3rd rate citizens.Do you ever see women praying in mosques? Are they allowed to?
They hate Jews and Christians.

But enough of that. COYS!
 
Racism covers prejudice and discrimination.
Prejudice and discrimination can come from ignorance rather than hatred. It often does.
But being offensive or insulting to a person of a different race is not necessarily racism - especially when their race is merely incidental to whatever was said or done.
Nor is having a joke at their expense.
This is point I made earlier.
Race hatred should be condemned and dealt with.
 
bigsmithy9 said:
Were we racists because we hated the Nazis in WW2?
Click to expand...

Nazi Germany was ostensibly caucasian, As was the UK.
So that means we would have hated our own race.

We hated a political left (big government vs the rights of the individual) regime,
that was both authoritarian and totalitarian, had notions of national supremacy
and racial purity pushing the latter to the industrial extermination of another
cultural/racial group.
 
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