Bending the rules

[Oldsparkey]

I mentioned this in the summer in a discussion with Hilts. Some Championship clubs think they've got away with it, but like Brum last season, shady past arrangements can eventually bite you on the arse.......

https://www.bbc.co.uk/sport/football/50418776

 

[BluefromBridgend]

Wonder how careful we need to be?

If not successful next season we may need a fire sale of players. Assuming no promotion this season of course.

 

[Barry Tiger]

Wonder how careful we need to be?

If not successful next season we may need a fire sale of players. Assuming no promotion this season of course.

How much for Madine?

 

[BluefromBridgend]

How much for Madine?

That's another few hundred thousand for us to pay out for some suck...... other club to take the useless lump of lard off us.

 

[Jay-Rede]

That's another few hundred thousand for us to pay out for some suck...... other club to take the useless lump of lard off us.

For an apple and a tangerine

 

[FrankfurterBlue]

I thought that we were close to the knuckle when we went up...or at least the muppets were shouting so. But surely, Tan has been carefully looking at this for some time (for example, he is staging his conversions of debt to equity). Our year in the top end must have brought some good profit given we didn't spend a lot and has a big TV payout. Parachute payments must help for 2/3 years too and I think those in charge have a grip on things. The Owls obviously gambled and lost big time and fiddled up a sale to try and cover it. But I can't see a football pitch (wherever it is) being worth much unless it is knocked down for housing/offices/retail development. Then, there's no stadium.

 

[Oldsparkey]

Cardiff's position re the stadium was completely different to that at Wednesday. City avoided breaching FFP rules 2 seasons back because the CCS was already in the ownership of the club and didn't change hands between club and owner. The losses for the year to May 2018 were offset by an enhanced stadium revaluation.

"At the financial year end, the club obtained an independent professional valuation of the stadium from Savills (UK) Limited. The valuation, on what is termed a depreciated replacement cost basis, was £83.5m compared to its previous value in the accounting records of £54.2m giving a revaluation benefit in the profit and loss account of £29.3m less a related tax adjustment of £2.3m."

 

[ccfcremotesupport]

Cardiff's position re the stadium was completely different to that at Wednesday. City avoided breaching FFP rules 2 seasons back because the CCS was already in the ownership of the club and didn't change hands between club and owner. The losses for the year to May 2018 were offset by an enhanced stadium revaluation.

"At the financial year end, the club obtained an independent professional valuation of the stadium from Savills (UK) Limited. The valuation, on what is termed a depreciated replacement cost basis, was £83.5m compared to its previous value in the accounting records of £54.2m giving a revaluation benefit in the profit and loss account of £29.3m less a related tax adjustment of £2.3m."

In discussions with my accountant at the moment regarding one of my daughters businesses (only small, but need managing). Assets and depreciation and offsets.
Its a dark art.

Football in general is an upside down pyramid. It could fall over at any time.
Even the big boys are juggling the books. Theres just a few more zeroes at the end of their numbers.

 

[Oldsparkey]

In discussions with my accountant at the moment regarding one of my daughters businesses (only small, but need managing). Assets and depreciation and offsets.
Its a dark art.

Football in general is an upside down pyramid. It could fall over at any time.
Even the big boys are juggling the books. Theres just a few more zeroes at the end of their numbers.

Remote - I went through that whole process about dozen years back. Amongst other things, bought my business premises in the early 90's and improved them over about a 10 year period with a mixture of bank loans and approved overdrafts. I was getting nowhere paying them off and eroding the debt, and they (HSBC) were getting cold feet with debtors such as me just pre the 2008 disaster - the pressure they were putting on was criminal.

I took some advice and brought in an independent professional valuer (from Newport actually Bluey ) to run the rule over what I had - I honestly had no idea what it was worth. I was blown away by the re-valuation and got a business mortgage on the back of it. Paid the bank off in full - I didn't owe them a penny and had no need for my business overdraft. In fact, changed my bank to NatWest just because I could......

Then came 2008 , my sector was seriously damaged and the writing was on the wall. Got out as soon as I could over about a 2 year period (and believe me that isn't as easy as it sounds), having to make sure I had everything in place personally. I was only 55 then and not reached the triggering age for my main business pension to kick in without sacrificing a lump of it for early retirement.

It all went to plan, I walked away and I've spent the last 7 years on here.......

 

[ccfcremotesupport]

Remote - I went through that whole process about dozen years back. Amongst other things, bought my business premises in the early 90's and improved them over about a 10 year period with a mixture of bank loans and approved overdrafts. I was getting nowhere paying them off and eroding the debt, and they (HSBC) were getting cold feet with debtors such as me just pre the 2008 disaster - the pressure they were putting on was criminal.

I took some advice and brought in an independent professional valuer (from Newport actually Bluey ) to run the rule over what I had - I honestly had no idea what it was worth. I was blown away by the re-valuation and got a business mortgage on the back of it. Paid the bank off in full - I didn't owe them a penny and had no need for my business overdraft. In fact, changed my bank to NatWest just because I could......

Then came 2008 , my sector was seriously damaged and the writing was on the wall. Got out as soon as I could over about a 2 year period (and believe me that isn't as easy as it sounds), having to make sure I had everything in place personally. I was only 55 then and not reached the triggering age for my main business pension to kick in without sacrificing a lump of it for early retirement.

It all went to plan, I walked away and I've spent the last 7 years on here.......

What did you do when you packed in sparky? Quite a lot of people splash out on a new motor.

Im easing into retirement (55 as well). Can't decide if I'm a gentleman farmer (complicated, but has to do with my daughter and partner separating and my wife taking a stake in the farm to buy him out - I'm free labour), retired, semi retired or between contracts. I'll have a think about which when I'm in scotland stood in a salmon river next week.

Just finalising separating my daughter and ex-partners businesses (he's a good lad and all relatively amicable - she kept the collies, but he has visitation rights ). Valuing everthing, who is keeping what, what is the balancing figure, etc. The hard part is the cow shed. They took out a loan but its on our land. Obviously he can't take his half.
Then there is my wife buying into the business (less tax implications - told you it was complicated) and adding equity in assets and cash.
My main occupation is in business management, but accountants seem to see numbers differently.
Its not just the maths which I can manage, its how its portrayed for tax, what can be offset, capitalised, depreciated.

Never mind, I've got a tractor to drive and ewes to keep me warm.
They're being scanned on monday so well see how successful I've been.

 

[BluefromBridgend]

Remote - I went through that whole process about dozen years back. Amongst other things, bought my business premises in the early 90's and improved them over about a 10 year period with a mixture of bank loans and approved overdrafts. I was getting nowhere paying them off and eroding the debt, and they (HSBC) were getting cold feet with debtors such as me just pre the 2008 disaster - the pressure they were putting on was criminal.

I took some advice and brought in an independent professional valuer (from Newport actually Bluey ) to run the rule over what I had - I honestly had no idea what it was worth. I was blown away by the re-valuation and got a business mortgage on the back of it. Paid the bank off in full - I didn't owe them a penny and had no need for my business overdraft. In fact, changed my bank to NatWest just because I could......

Then came 2008 , my sector was seriously damaged and the writing was on the wall. Got out as soon as I could over about a 2 year period (and believe me that isn't as easy as it sounds), having to make sure I had everything in place personally. I was only 55 then and not reached the triggering age for my main business pension to kick in without sacrificing a lump of it for early retirement.

It all went to plan, I walked away and I've spent the last 7 years on here.......

And in the New Forest.

 

[Oldsparkey]

And in the New Forest.

Yay.

Going back again in July for a fortnight - same place as before. Can't fault it but had to pay the full whack this time to secure the dates - that's bloody annoyed me....

Before that though, nipping down to Dartmouth again for a week at the start of May to chill. I wonder if we'll be in the playoffs by then, or even already up as an auto...

 

[Oldsparkey]

What did you do when you packed in sparky? Quite a lot of people splash out on a new motor.

Im easing into retirement (55 as well). Can't decide if I'm a gentleman farmer (complicated, but has to do with my daughter and partner separating and my wife taking a stake in the farm to buy him out - I'm free labour), retired, semi retired or between contracts. I'll have a think about which when I'm in scotland stood in a salmon river next week.

Just finalising separating my daughter and ex-partners businesses (he's a good lad and all relatively amicable - she kept the collies, but he has visitation rights ). Valuing everthing, who is keeping what, what is the balancing figure, etc. The hard part is the cow shed. They took out a loan but its on our land. Obviously he can't take his half.
Then there is my wife buying into the business (less tax implications - told you it was complicated) and adding equity in assets and cash.
My main occupation is in business management, but accountants seem to see numbers differently.
Its not just the maths which I can manage, its how its portrayed for tax, what can be offset, capitalised, depreciated.

Never mind, I've got a tractor to drive and ewes to keep me warm.
They're being scanned on monday so well see how successful I've been.

As you're aware, I did mention it on another forum but upset one poster in particular who hasn't been seen since - I think he's doing some graffiti....

Blimey remote - good luck with all that family stuff - it's far more difficult than just business. Maybe I'm lucky on that score.

Eldest son is a freelance electronic design engineer - don't see a lot of him. Often works at Aldermaston on projects and said he'd have to kill me if he told me what he's doing.......

Middle (daughter) got a degree in German (Leeds university ) and went to work for Audi in Ingolstadt for a few years. Switched to a large German insurance company whilst over there and is now based back in Blighty as a team leader for them.

Youngest son wasn't interested in further academic progress after leaving school and pissed off to Australia to find his fortune - he's a good lad though. Married a nurse over there and was last heard of working as an interior designer - I still can't imagine him hanging curtains......

 

[ccfcremotesupport]

As you're aware, I did mention it on another forum but upset one poster in particular who hasn't been seen since - I think he's doing some graffiti....

Blimey remote - good luck with all that family stuff - it's far more difficult than just business. Maybe I'm lucky on that score.

Eldest son is a freelance electronic design engineer - don't see a lot of him. Often works at Aldermaston on projects and said he'd have to kill me if he told me what he's doing.......

Middle (daughter) got a degree in German (Leeds university ) and went to work for Audi in Ingolstadt for a few years. Switched to a large German insurance company whilst over there and is now based back in Blighty as a team leader for them.

Youngest son wasn't interested in further academic progress after leaving school and pissed off to Australia to find his fortune - he's a good lad though. Married a nurse over there and was last heard of working as an interior designer - I still can't imagine him hanging curtains......

Think you might have more street cred in your BMW X5 than I have in my Ford 7840. It has got a 6.6 litre engine and 16 gears though.

Yeah, kids. Who'd have them.

Worked in the defense industry myself for 10 years visiting a few premises that dont appear on maps.

Sounds like your lot are sorted though sparky.

Bit of a long trip to see your youngest.

 

[Oldsparkey]

Yeah, kids. Who'd have them.

Worked in the defense industry myself for 10 years visiting a few premises that dont appear on maps.

Sounds like your lot are sorted though sparky.

Bit of a long trip to see your youngest.

Despite moving around a bit with work, I've never been outside Europe - anyway, he knows where I live..........

Quite a few years back not long after he'd gone out there when people still wrote letters, the cheeky bugger dropped me a line asking for some money (a loan he called it ) to buy a house.

I told him to get off his arse and earn some like I did. Funnily enough, it didn't seem to endear me to him at the time, but you get over these sort of things eventually - no probs now.

 

[ccfcremotesupport]

Despite moving around a bit with work, I've never been outside Europe - anyway, he knows where I live..........

Quite a few years back not long after he'd gone out there when people still wrote letters, the cheeky bugger dropped me a line asking for some money (a loan he called it ) to buy a house.

I told him to get off his arse and earn some like I did. Funnily enough, it didn't seem to endear me to him at the time, but you get over these sort of things eventually - no probs now.

Been to the states quite a bit on business and Canada. Also spent a few weeks in India on one project. Never been outside Europe on hols and not been on hols even for a few years. Mrs is a bit of a home bird.

My daughter is pretty good when it comes to money. She's always bought her own cars and does save. Any time she wanders off script I just say 'fine, no worries, I'll sell the fields we have and she can have it from that'. Conversation doesn't last long.
You do the best for your kids, but its not a gravy train.


Anyway, back on script. Clubs are going to find more and more ways of massaging accounts to get around the rules. Just like Saracens rugby finding ways to circumvent the salary caps.
Its a slippery slope. At some point more clubs will go the way of bury.
Saw on the local news tonight that Macclesfield are in dire straights having not paid their players for some time. Not sure selling their ground will help them. There are enough clubs out there that don't own their ground anyway.

 

[BluefromBridgend]

True Remote.

It remains a structure of cards or a game of Jenga. The wrong one goes and others will follow.

In 46 years of employment, never worked for myself. Retired from first job at 50 and was able to take my pension then, as well as a lump sum to clear the mortgage. Have been paid every month for 15 years for doing nothing. Many I worked with said they didn't notice the change.

Accumulated a second pension with my third job and now Boris sends me money every 4 weeks as well. Can't be bad.

The only downside of this post is that Masky, if he reads this, now knows my age.

My daughter got a degree in OT and now has a great job. Her recently acquired husband (been together 8 years) is a podiatrist and setting up his own business from their home in Poole. If all goes well their future looks very bright.

Joking aside, this all a result of working hard and some good, could be lucky, decisions. Some may think me fortunate but what is wrong in putting the time in and ultimately enjoying the fruits of your labours?

P.S. For Masky, BT is 2 years younger than me and still gainfully employed. He has to maintain 3 motor bikes and a thirsty car.

 

[ccfcremotesupport]

True Remote.

It remains a structure of cards or a game of Jenga. The wrong one goes and others will follow.

In 46 years of employment, never worked for myself. Retired from first job at 50 and was able to take my pension then, as well as a lump sum to clear the mortgage. Have been paid every month for 15 years for doing nothing. Many I worked with said they didn't notice the change.

Accumulated a second pension with my third job and now Boris sends me money every 4 weeks as well. Can't be bad.

The only downside of this post is that Masky, if he reads this, now knows my age.

My daughter got a degree in OT and now has a great job. Her recently acquired husband (been together 8 years) is a podiatrist and setting up his own business from their home in Poole. If all goes well their future looks very bright.

Joking aside, this all a result of working hard and some good, could be lucky, decisions. Some may think me fortunate but what is wrong in putting the time in and ultimately enjoying the fruits of your labours?

P.S. For Masky, BT is 2 years younger than me and still gainfully employed. He has to maintain 3 motor bikes and a thirsty car.

The footy is indeed a house of cards.
If the flow down from the top ends there will be more to the wall. Either that or a lot more footballers will have to get by on what the average man earns.

As for personal circumstance, you can be lucky, though there is a lot of making you're own luck.