Match Day Thread Tottenham Hotspur v Liverpool
- Thread starter PleaseNotPoll
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Looking at the various preferred/projected starting lineups, I can't help but notice Verts features in all of them - yet so far this season he's been a yard of pace slower than he was even last season and that has proven costly on more than one occasion, but that gets overlooked for reasons unknown
Comparing him and Toby this season it has to be said Toby has offered more not just as a defender as he's made some crucial interceptions, with at least a couple of them yesterday, and he actually looks for the progressive pass rather than the recycled ball or the easy out ball that's been problematic with Winks and Sissoko at times this season
This leads to the obvious issue, though, namely we have to sign a starting-quality CB next summer no matter what the cost to partner Sanchez - and even if we do get Verts to sign a short-term contract, we still need a starting-quality CB as relying on an ageing Verts to partner Sanchez while having Tanganga in reserve is asking for us to be bitten on the backsides
But this once again goes back to Spurs fans telling Poch not to be sentimental as he seeks to slash and burn the side...and then being sentimental if one of their favourites is at risk of the chop
Comparing him and Toby this season it has to be said Toby has offered more not just as a defender as he's made some crucial interceptions, with at least a couple of them yesterday, and he actually looks for the progressive pass rather than the recycled ball or the easy out ball that's been problematic with Winks and Sissoko at times this season
This leads to the obvious issue, though, namely we have to sign a starting-quality CB next summer no matter what the cost to partner Sanchez - and even if we do get Verts to sign a short-term contract, we still need a starting-quality CB as relying on an ageing Verts to partner Sanchez while having Tanganga in reserve is asking for us to be bitten on the backsides
But this once again goes back to Spurs fans telling Poch not to be sentimental as he seeks to slash and burn the side...and then being sentimental if one of their favourites is at risk of the chop
Can only speak for myself but I pick Verts because he seems marginally more committed to the club than Toby, and because he’s the left sided CB we have and I like the balance.
Did Liverpool deserve the 3 points? Straight question
I think Liverpool were the better side over the match but we all know that doesn’t always equate to getting the 3 points. Given Son hit the bar and Rose shanked a great chance, I don’t think you could have had too many complaints if we had shared the points.
Not that Jan has been that great this season but I think Toby has been dreadful from a defensive standpoint. He does offer more of an outlet with long balls but for me a defender needs to defend first and foremost and he’s not done that well enough.
Plus I think Jan and Dave work better than Toby and Dave. Probably because of the left-right combo but I also think Jan has a more calming influence to Dave, sort of how Ledley was with whoever he was partnered with.
I’d also say Jan is more committed to the club than Toby, from everything I’ve heard it sounds he’d prefer to stay but it’s the club seemingly holding back, Toby’s wanted out for about 2 years now.
Interesting to read your views on Poch. Personally, as a non spurs fan but admirer of what he’d achieved at Spurs, I think that some of the quotes he gave in the back end of last season unsettled everything in the squad and undid everything he’d built. Since then, neither him or the team have been anything like what they were. Shame really, he’s undoing his own legacy.
Initially I though the same, but watching it back, I just think his weight is on his right and its very hard in that split second to go the other way even with just your leg
Did Liverpool deserve the 3 points? Straight question
Yes just about, you had a lot of the ball and created a lot of pressure without really creating clear cut chances, and having gone in front you let us back into it and we could have nicked a point.But overall the better team won.
Did Liverpool deserve the 3 points? Straight question
Of course. You were all over us until the last 10 minutes, which we marginally shaded.
I was pleasantly surprised at the Dave-Toby partnering yesterday as on previous occasions they've been shambolic together. But yes, Dave-Jan is the better balanced and Dave's body language seems that bit calmer and more confident when he is with Jan.
Given the fact that we have known Toby wants to leave for over a year now, plus the fact that Jan himself will be following sooner rather than later, it is baffling that we didn't see much, much more of the Dave-Jan partnership last season. Instead, after a couple of bad performances we pretty much ditched him and persisted with a partnering that isn't the long-term future of the club (Dave got 22 starts last season, Toby - who wasn't all that good himself in many games - got 33). And the same thing seems to be happening this season. It's as if Poch expects key young players (Dave, Foyth, KWP, Skipp) to develop without actually playing competitive football.
That's the most confusing aspect. Poch loves to bring in young hungry players (at least when he first joins, this is his longest stint right) yet hes hes persisting with older and less energetic players who arent the future rather than trying something new.
I was pleasantly surprised at the Dave-Toby partnering yesterday as on previous occasions they've been shambolic together. But yes, Dave-Jan is the better balanced and Dave's body language seems that bit calmer and more confident when he is with Jan.
Given the fact that we have known Toby wants to leave for over a year now, plus the fact that Jan himself will be following sooner rather than later, it is baffling that we didn't see much, much more of the Dave-Jan partnership last season. Instead, after a couple of bad performances we pretty much ditched him and persisted with a partnering that isn't the long-term future of the club (Dave got 22 starts last season, Toby - who wasn't all that good himself in many games - got 33). And the same thing seems to be happening this season. It's as if Poch expects key young players (Dave, Foyth, KWP, Skipp) to develop without actually playing competitive football.
We saw something similar with mourinho and conte who persisted with the older senior underperforming players and its a very common trait in loads of managers who are feeling the pressure.
In a way, he was very fortunate with the cohort he inherited when he took over. No question he improved all if not most of them, but you have to stop for a moment and consider that all of Walker, Kane, Rose, Eriksen, Davies had already broken through at PL level before his arrival - in some cases (Walker), long before. Then Lamela, Dier and Son had more than a year of playing in the top flights of Italy, Portugal and Germany respectively. Add to that Wanyama, Jan, Toby, Dembele, were all established players when they/he joined.
So unless I'm missing something, the only players we've plucked from relative obscurity or successfully promoted from the academy under Poch's watch are Dele, Winks and Foyth. And currently Dele's form has plummeted, Winks simply isn't good enough and Foyth is unproven.
Poch is clearly at his best taking semi-established talent and developing it into something special. Exactly in line with our summer signings. The trouble is, over the past 5 years the average price tag on semi-established young talent has risen exponentially, so much so that we forked out £30m + Onomah for Sessgnon, Arsenal committed £32m for an 18 year old with 12 games under his belt, etc...
And so his job has gotten that much harder, and more expensive, to do.
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Fair
Good side you guys have put together
It can’t rain all the time
Hope you have a good season in all but one game as it stands
So what is he to say? Yes NDombele came on and we were much better and Winks and Eriksen were crap! You just can't do that as a manager you have to keep your council regarding detrimental opinions of players. You have to talk up your squad in public. Plus you are making assumptions that he actually agrees with your view on these players.
After all up until the Bayern game you were still telling us that Eriksen was our best player. It's about opinions and that's the basis of discussion. I always go back to Darren Bent several top managers thought he was worth 10's of millions I thought he was crap from the beginning at Charlton but it's about opinions.