Carroll

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Ze

Ze

Well-Known Member
Jan 26, 2011
4,098
86
63
Is it time to cut our losses with him?

Some would say, he was bought for the future etc.. etc.. but if a bid came in for him then I'd accept it no problem.

I honestly think at the moment, he is holding a space that even Morgan could thrive in... I'd much rather see one of them making the step up than us continuously trying to justify his price tag to the world.
 
Give him a season? In the first two games his goals should have stood but because of his size the contact he made looked like he fouled (When he didn't).
 
Today is no game to judge him on. He was forced to play anywhere but up front for most of the game, and actually made a couple of decent tackles when he tracked back.
What do you mean when you say 'a bid'? A bid of any size? Would you be prepared to let him leave for say £10 million?

Although it is perhaps a luxury we can't afford, he needs to be given time. It takes some players a full season or two of top flight football to find their stride.
 
Thierry Henry never scored that many in the first few seasons if I remember correctly, yet he is known for his goal-scoring record in the Premier League.

And today Andy looked fitter than previous, had he the right service he could have actually had a goal in my opinion. The whole team was poor, but to single out one player who is continously improving, is unfair.
 
I believe he will eventually come good but maybe,just maybe,he doesn't want to be here .After all he was 'forced' to leave Newcastle,I don't think he would have come otherwise.So does he pine for the Toon? Is his heart elsewhere? His performances so far would suggest so because when he was playing for Newcastle he played with tremendous Power and Pace !! I thought at the time he would be a great signing for us (not for £35 million though but hey-ho) and I still believe he will be.
 
He plays with no passion for Liverpool...at Newcastle you could see the passion he played with, if you take that out of his game, he loses the abilty which made you pay £35 million for him....his heart is just not in it for Liverpool
 
We didnt play very good football when Carroll was here, and that suited him to be quite honest. Long passes and loads of crosses are what he needs, not short passing and through balls he'll never get to etc (which is what everyone wants to see of course). Quite a dilemma.
 
ronson333 said:
He plays with no passion for Liverpool...at Newcastle you could see the passion he played with, if you take that out of his game, he loses the abilty which made you pay £35 million for him....his heart is just not in it for Liverpool
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exactly
 
He was a panic buy. Said it last January, saying it now; and I too believe he never wanted to come.

The plan was we were supposed to keep Torres. Up until the wire we all thought he would stay. He did one. Kenny had to get someone, so he laid out £35 for a good player, potentially a great player, but not worth the money. Maybe he was worth that to Newcastle, but...

We paid less for Suarez and get more effort and results from him than from Carroll. Suarez is a far superior player.

I think privately Kenny knows it, too. Carroll started today, but he's been coming on as a sub more often than not. Last week I said well he won't score goals if he stays on the bench. Maybe with a few more starts and if he stays on the pitch for the 90 the goals will come, but right now I've got my doubts, and that's not just based on today's game.

Added to that is all this talk from Capello about Carroll's attitude and his drinking and partying. Kenny's come out and disagreed with Capello - sticking by his player, quite right - but who is right? What is Capello basing his ideas on?

Bought for the future? How long into the future? One season? Two? What if he doesn't want to stay and what if someone else comes along to usurp him and he's benched more often? What then?

I'd give him the season but don't be surprised if he hands in a transfer request sooner or later, I won't be.
 
wishiwasinliverpool said:
He was a panic buy. Said it last January, saying it now; and I too believe he never wanted to come.

The plan was we were supposed to keep Torres. Up until the wire we all thought he would stay. He did one. Kenny had to get someone, so he laid out £35 for a good player, potentially a great player, but not worth the money. Maybe he was worth that to Newcastle, but...

We paid less for Suarez and get more effort and results from him than from Carroll. Suarez is a far superior player.

I think privately Kenny knows it, too. Carroll started today, but he's been coming on as a sub more often than not. Last week I said well he won't score goals if he stays on the bench. Maybe with a few more starts and if he stays on the pitch for the 90 the goals will come, but right now I've got my doubts, and that's not just based on today's game.

Added to that is all this talk from Capello about Carroll's attitude and his drinking and partying. Kenny's come out and disagreed with Capello - sticking by his player, quite right - but who is right? What is Capello basing his ideas on?

Bought for the future? How long into the future? One season? Two? What if he doesn't want to stay and what if someone else comes along to usurp him and he's benched more often? What then?

I'd give him the season but don't be surprised if he hands in a transfer request sooner or later, I won't be.
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While I do agree that Torres was expected (by the board) to stay, I wouldn't call Carroll a panic buy in its truest sense.
We could have kept Torres if we'd wanted, like Spurs kept Modric. He had years to run on his contract. With this in mind, we obviously thought it was worth while letting him go if we could get Carroll in, which we did. He'd already been identified as a summer target, which means we'd had someone watching him, so it wasn't as if we stuck a list of names on a dart board and took a punt.

You can't criticise the fee based on how good Suarez has turned out. Who, in January, would have told you Suarez would turn out to be this good? He had no PL experience and many who have thrived in the Dutch League have failed over here. Obviously he was scouted extensively, but his potential adaptation to English football was less certain than Carroll's. You pay the transfer fees there and then, not 6 months down the line.

The 'future' is now and the next few years. While Torres has hit his peak, Carroll hasn't. The theory itself is logical, and Carroll had scored 11 goals in the PL, so we'd based our purchase on these things.
 
suarezlfc said:
While I do agree that Torres was expected (by the board) to stay, I wouldn't call Carroll a panic buy in its truest sense.
We could have kept Torres if we'd wanted, like Spurs kept Modric. He had years to run on his contract. With this in mind, we obviously thought it was worth while letting him go if we could get Carroll in, which we did. He'd already been identified as a summer target, which means we'd had someone watching him, so it wasn't as if we stuck a list of names on a dart board and took a punt.

You can't criticise the fee based on how good Suarez has turned out. Who, in January, would have told you Suarez would turn out to be this good? He had no PL experience and many who have thrived in the Dutch League have failed over here. Obviously he was scouted extensively, but his potential adaptation to English football was less certain than Carroll's. You pay the transfer fees there and then, not 6 months down the line.

The 'future' is now and the next few years. While Torres has hit his peak, Carroll hasn't. The theory itself is logical, and Carroll had scored 11 goals in the PL, so we'd based our purchase on these things.
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Wait, are you saying - or was Kenny saying - that Carroll is as good as Torres, if not better?

While I wouldn't give Torres my last Rolo. and I relish in him looking a knob at Chelsea, I wouldn't quite agree with that, and I'm surprised Kenny thought it, too. He knew how we felt about Torres and Torres was the one who came out and said he wanted to join Chelsea to 'win trophies'. He left because he wanted to, and he was bloody sly about it. He knew what he was doing.

I don't deny that Carroll is good, what I'm saying is we've yet to see him great. It all looks a bit too messy to me.
 
wishiwasinliverpool said:
Wait, are you saying - or was Kenny saying - that Carroll is as good as Torres, if not better?

While I wouldn't give Torres my last Rolo. and I relish in him looking a knob at Chelsea, I wouldn't quite agree with that, and I'm surprised Kenny thought it, too. He knew how we felt about Torres and Torres was the one who came out and said he wanted to join Chelsea to 'win trophies'. He left because he wanted to, and he was bloody sly about it. He knew what he was doing.

I don't deny that Carroll is good, what I'm saying is we've yet to see him great. It all looks a bit too messy to me.
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Quite clearly I'm not saying that. I said we let him go based on the fact we thought we could get Carroll in. The choice was an unhappy Torres not performing well, or a young player looking to have a decent future in the top flight. Based on those facts at the time, we let Torres leave.

If Kenny could look a year into the future, would he have done the deal? I don't know. But at the time it seemed a decent deal. Both were overpriced, but since the fees were reliant on each other, it doesn't matter to us.
 
Evening all, new to this so bare with me.

I was unsure about Carroll last January when we signed him. Unfortunately Carragher tends to think he's playing rugby when we have a target man to aim for rather than passing it out of defence, and it appears to me as if Carroll's style is out of shape with ours. The players look like they don't know where he's going to knock it down, and eventually it leads to Carroll supporting...well, himself.

Perhaps in time, as they become more familiar with each other, they'll start to learn their positioning better and I've no doubts Dalglish and co. will be working hard on this. Someone did press however, on a subject I've been thinking when I'm watching him play.

The lack of desire ~ There appears to be no aggression in his play or tempo. If he loses the ball, he whinges. If he has a foul against him, he sulks. When things don't go your way, you can't just sit back and expect it to fall into place. I'm not trying to criticise him, and I don't intend to if I am indirectly, but I think he has alot of work to do to stay in this side.

On the back of that, I think a run of a couple of goals could do his confidence wonders. He just needs to be getting in the right positions (which he hasn't been), and he'll start to find the flow. It just appears to be, like with Henderson, a waiting game to see if our expensive gamble pays off.
 
YNWA said:
Evening all, new to this so bare with me.

I was unsure about Carroll last January when we signed him. Unfortunately Carragher tends to think he's playing rugby when we have a target man to aim for rather than passing it out of defence, and it appears to me as if Carroll's style is out of shape with ours. The players look like they don't know where he's going to knock it down, and eventually it leads to Carroll supporting...well, himself.

Perhaps in time, as they become more familiar with each other, they'll start to learn their positioning better and I've no doubts Dalglish and co. will be working hard on this. Someone did press however, on a subject I've been thinking when I'm watching him play.

The lack of desire ~ There appears to be no aggression in his play or tempo. If he loses the ball, he whinges. If he has a foul against him, he sulks. When things don't go your way, you can't just sit back and expect it to fall into place. I'm not trying to criticise him, and I don't intend to if I am indirectly, but I think he has alot of work to do to stay in this side.

On the back of that, I think a run of a couple of goals could do his confidence wonders. He just needs to be getting in the right positions (which he hasn't been), and he'll start to find the flow. It just appears to be, like with Henderson, a waiting game to see if our expensive gamble pays off.
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Make that American football. You can't pass forward in Rugby, although Carragher does do a lot of passing backwards to Reina...

But yes, I agree with you. We tend to look better for the most part when he's not playing. He's handy for a few games a season as he is, but he needs to improve his all round play to be a regular starter, i feel.
 
The fee is clearly a big issue though (regardless of the fact it was paid for by Torres), there's pressure to play him when he isnt necessarily needed and it's a huge weight on his shoulders.
 
Smudger said:
The fee is clearly a big issue though (regardless of the fact it was paid for by Torres), there's pressure to play him when he isnt necessarily needed and it's a huge weight on his shoulders.
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I agree it's a massive amount of money, but I'm sure (having not looked directly at the stats) he's scored the same amount for us as Torres has for £hel$ea? It's a big amount of pressure to put on a lad at his age, the difference is he still has 10 years left in him, possibly longer.
Torres was bought to deliver a Champion's League for London's most plastic club and hasn't been all that. I think possibly that's allowed Carroll some more time to hide behind, but I also think he has been struggling for fitness. He's struggled with a knee injury and is trying to adapt to a new style of play which is maybe abit more difficult than someone hoofing the ball and shouting fetch (though Carragher does a cracking impression of it).

Though I'm not his biggest fan, he does require more time. The longer it goes on though, the less excuses we can make for the fella. I'd have no problem if he starts setting people up and adding a different element to our game that way, but he's not doing that at the minute. He needs to start.
 
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