Poch Watch

[littleDinosaurLuke]

Your analysis lacks context and balance. Players like Harry Kane, Dele Alli, Heung Min Son, Lucas Moura, Tanguy Ndombele, Lo Celso and Sessegnon have all signed long term contracts, on very good money

Our income is great now but we do have debts that have to be serviced. Failure to do so ends up in spending over £1 billion without repaying the original debt or going out of business. We're spending our money but not about to offer a 29 year old £500k per week. Of United's top earners, one's being paid to play elsewhere and the other wants to leave. More money is not the only answer.

Some more senior players are looking to see if they can improve their last big contract elsewhere. That's an issue but it isn't that catastrophic. Having **** all to spend for a decade has been tough. Now we have the capability to replace players, I expect us to do that more frequently.

You're saying that progress in some areas should mask other problems.
Key players don't want to stay at the club.
The progression of the club depends on how the club deals with the likes of Eriksen rather than seeking reassurance from the players who are presently content with their lot.
Utd are not currently at the level of Spurs - despite the club's wealth.
Spurs are not currently at the level of City or Liverpool. The difference is found in the commitment of some of the players and consequently, the belief in the team's ability to perform at the level required.

 

["Thanks for that Brian"]

You're saying that progress in some areas should mask other problems.

No, you're saying that. I'm saying that the majority of players the club sees as key to its development over the next 5 years have signed for that long. The exception is Eriksen and short term deals for Toby and Jan. It's not a stampede for the exit as you'd like to portray it.

I'd say that in just about every club, there are players who want to leave, often the top players or those in their 30's - Pogba, Hazard, Neymar, De Gea, Eriksen, Coutinho or Ronaldo, Lewandowski, Ibrahimovic, Dani Alves. Some do. Some don't. If we lose Eriksen for free it will be a real blow but we'll recover. If we sell him this summer, it'll be easier, as we'll have some money to spend. If he stays - great

I'm not sure that going forward a couple of years that he'll prove a fabulous investment, wherever he ends up. Playing him deep is a problem as he won't tackle, head the ball or get physical.

Jan Vertonghen's a fabulous defender and Toby's a very good one. To lose both at the same time (especially at the same time as (Eriksen) would be extremely tough but I doubt that's going to happen. One will probably go next summer(Alderweireld) and the other will sign on for a couple more years.

So, we'll probably lose a centre half (we already have Sanchez as a replacement) and Eriksen but that no 10 position is one that's increasingly seen as a luxury, especially when the player in question has gaps in his armoury. Deeper play makers like KdB and Modric are more the thing now - which is why we've gone for Lo Celso and Ndombele.

We're entering a new phase where we'll have money to bring in top young talent and there's a number of players that need replacing. It's happened before, will happen again and isn't the end of the world.

 

[Dier Hard]

The thing I'm not quite getting with this supposed dissent/ disruption stuff is nothing has actually been reported as to what exactly is going on, all that's being taken is Poch's words of "unsettled team" but what does it/ he actually mean?

If we take just Spurs alone for a second, we found out that Modric/ Bale refused to train and play for the club to engineer a move (Modric since apologised in an interview a couple years back). We also found out about Kaboul and his crew causing unrest and somewhat bullied the younger members, hence why Poch banished them. We knew Andros pushed our fitness coach, Nathan Gardner, and that resulted in his eventual sale. We knew Bentaleb came back from injury and wasn't happy that he basically had to fight to regain his place and his attitude was a concern so was eventually sold. Outside of Spurs, you hear of things like transfer requests from players (Mahrez, Zaha etc) or you hear about squad unrest due to a player's wages (Ozil at Arsenal which caused Ramsay to **** off as he wasn't offered similar, or Pogba supposedly being unhappy at Sanchez's wages at Utd) yet where is the actual dissent or unsettled factor stemming from with regards to us right now?

We know Eriksen would like a new challenge but as of yet hasn't requested to leave (and judging by bts videos and his own Instagram last night, it doesn't seem he's being disruptive and is seemingly getting his head down and focusing on Spurs until a move materialises), Jan is being bizarrely left out despite he said over the summer he'd sign a new deal if offered, Toby now seems set to stay if reports are true, Rose was basically placed up for transfer yet has started all three games so far... Things just aren't making enough sense to me.

If any of our players are indeed causing problems, Poch should out them, let us the fans know who's being a dick because we can then sympathise with the manager, the problem with him just mentioning "unsettled squad" can mean a load of things, esepcially as he may have contributed towards that with his own comments on his future in recent months, so whilst he's not picking key players without any seemingly valid reasons, the fans are questioning him and his decisions.

 

[humanbeingincroydon]

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[Spudulike]

I find myself agreeing completely with @remembercolinlee on all points regarding this situation.

Strangely or otherwise, I also find myself siding with Levy and the board as they have worked wonders these past few years (aside from the lack of transfer activity in the past couple of windows for reasons which can be argued). The stadium is incredible and I'm sure history will look back at that being a fantastic footballing and financial decision.

Poch got his transfer targets if reports are to be believed, so his unhappiness appears self-inflicted.

It appears to me that Poch is great with the players if all are onboard and everything is rosy. The second any of them show any signs of drifting, they are cut out and cast aside. In these situations Poch seems to be showing incredibly poor man management skills and extreme naivety. To leave Rose at home and then put him into the starting 11 for each league game this season is not only baffling, it's bordering on amateurish.

This is not the first time either. He did the same to Toby when he refused a new contract, only to then bring him back into the team after realising what a stupid decision that was.

Premier league match day performances since January have been by and large dire and that's down to Poch and his coaching team. He's gotten starting 11's, formations and tactics horribly wrong and repeatedly, time and again. If he can't figure out a way to beat busparquet tactics by now, then when will he?

I do wonder if his training regimes are getting repetitive and boring, with the players now getting to the point where it feels monotonous and uninspiring. Because having to witness the flat and lifeless matches of late has been draining.

I have to laugh at all this talk of a rebuild. That talk usually happens when a team has been successful at winning honours and it's about creating a new generation, a la Ferguson at United to continue that mould. But last time I checked we still hadn't won anything, so what are we rebuilding exactly? Another generation of sideways passers?

I've wondered at many times during this past year where Poch plans to take this club/team next in terms of playing style and mentality because so far, I see little change in the past 2-3 years. We've relied on the same core players, to play the same way. So is he a one trick wonder? I hope not but it does look to me that there is little inspiration or belief out there of late and I do suspect the players have reached a stage of wanting to be inspired by new ideas and I'm not sure Poch has anymore up his sleeve. If plan A doesn't work, this is no plan B.

Getting the hump and sulking isn't going to solve that. He needs to be seen as a leader, so start acting like one.

 

[humanbeingincroydon]

I find myself agreeing completely with @remembercolinlee on all points regarding this situation.

Strangely or otherwise, I also find myself siding with Levy and the board as they have worked wonders these past few years (aside from the lack of transfer activity in the past couple of windows for reasons which can be argued). The stadium is incredible and I'm sure history will look back at that being a fantastic footballing and financial decision.

Poch got his transfer targets if reports are to be believed, so his unhappiness appears self-inflicted.

It appears to me that Poch is great with the players if all are onboard and everything is rosy. The second any of them show any signs of drifting, they are cut out and cast aside. In these situations Poch seems to be showing incredibly poor man management skills and extreme naivety. To leave Rose at home and then put him into the starting 11 for each league game this season is not only baffling, it's bordering on amateurish.

This is not the first time either. He did the same to Toby when he refused a new contract, only to then bring him back into the team after realising what a stupid decision that was.

Premier league match day performances since January have been by and large dire and that's down to Poch and his coaching team. He's gotten starting 11's, formations and tactics horribly wrong and repeatedly, time and again. If he can't figure out a way to beat busparquet tactics by now, then when will he?

I do wonder if his training regimes are getting repetitive and boring, with the players now getting to the point where it feels monotonous and uninspiring. Because having to witness the flat and lifeless matches of late has been draining.

I have to laugh at all this talk of a rebuild. That talk usually happens when a team has been successful at winning honours and it's about creating a new generation, a la Ferguson at United to continue that mould. But last time I checked we still hadn't won anything, so what are we rebuilding exactly? Another generation of sideways passers?

I've wondered at many times during this past year where Poch plans to take this club/team next in terms of playing style and mentality because so far, I see little change in the past 2-3 years. We've relied on the same core players, to play the same way. So is he a one trick wonder? I hope not but it does look to me that there is little inspiration or belief out there of late and I do suspect the players have reached a stage of wanting to be inspired by new ideas and I'm not sure Poch has anymore up his sleeve. If plan A doesn't work, this is no plan B.

Getting the hump and sulking isn't going to solve that. He needs to be seen as a leader, so start acting like one.

In terms of Rose, the reason he's playing is quite simple:
* Ben Davies is recovering from hip surgery
* Ryan Sessegnon is recovering from a hamstring injury
* Jan Vertonghen is [insert conspiracy theory and/or rational argument here]
* Anthony Georgiou is on loan at Ipswich
* Harvey White is a central midfielder the U23s play at left back
* Dennis Cirkin is...okay, we've now got into the U18s

 

[Spudulike]

In terms of Rose, the reason he's playing is quite simple:
* Ben Davies is recovering from hip surgery
* Ryan Sessegnon is recovering from a hamstring injury
* Jan Vertonghen is [insert conspiracy theory and/or rational argument here]
* Anthony Georgiou is on loan at Ipswich
* Harvey White is a central midfielder the U23s play at left back
* Dennis Cirkin is...okay, we've now got into the U18s

• Ben Davies - surgery took place in June so Poch fully aware that was a factor coming into the season
• Ryan Sessegnon - bought knowing he had an injury so Poch fully aware (again) and won't be fit/ready for a considerable time
• Jan Vertonghen - heaven knows what that is all about??
• Anthony Georgiou - simply not ready to contemplate starting, besides being on loan

So... I'm still trying to figure out a plausible rationale for Poch leaving him at home, rather than going on the tour.... I don't think anyone can or will TBH.

 

[The RDBD]

It appears to me that Poch is great with the players if all are onboard and everything is rosy. The second any of them show any signs of drifting, they are cut out and cast aside. In these situations Poch seems to be showing incredibly poor man management skills and extreme naivety. To leave Rose at home and then put him into the starting 11 for each league game this season is not only baffling, it's bordering on amateurish.

Any manager who can only operate in binary terms with his squad, will not endure.

If Pochettino likes Fergie so much, seek an audience to discuss with him what he
believes the current state of affairs is, and how the great one would have dealt with it,

Or closer to home, go and ask Keithy how he managed Archibald in that last season
when the claim was that neither were on speaking terms (yet Archibald was selected) .

 

[humanbeingincroydon]

• Ben Davies - surgery took place in June so Poch fully aware that was a factor coming into the season
• Ryan Sessegnon - bought knowing he had an injury so Poch fully aware (again) and won't be fit/ready for a considerable time
• Jan Vertonghen - heaven knows what that is all about??
• Anthony Georgiou - simply not ready to contemplate starting, besides being on loan

So... I'm still trying to figure out a plausible rationale for Poch leaving him at home, rather than going on the tour.... I don't think anyone can or will TBH.

* Ben Davies - had surgery, so rushing him into the starting xi makes no sense
* Ryan Sessegnon - injured, so rushing him into the starting xi makes no sense
* Jan Vertonghen - leave that to Twitter ITKs to be wrong about
* Anthony Georgiou - at Ipswich

That is why Danny Rose is starting.

 

[Citizen Kane.]

• Ben Davies - surgery took place in June so Poch fully aware that was a factor coming into the season
• Ryan Sessegnon - bought knowing he had an injury so Poch fully aware (again) and won't be fit/ready for a considerable time
• Jan Vertonghen - heaven knows what that is all about??
• Anthony Georgiou - simply not ready to contemplate starting, besides being on loan

So... I'm still trying to figure out a plausible rationale for Poch leaving him at home, rather than going on the tour.... I don't think anyone can or will TBH.

You've answered your own question. So has HBIC. We're playing Rose because we don't have a choice. But as soon as one of Davies or Sess is up to speed, I don't think we'll be seeing very much of him for the remainder of the season. The decision to leave him at home and use an academy player in pre season was the clearest indicator that Poch desperately wants him gone. His latest ill-advised interview in July was probably the final straw. Ultimately though, no one came in for him save for a derisory bid from Watford on deadline day. Poch couldn't have foreseen that. Given the circumstances he did the most sensible thing in terms of maximising the chances of the player moving away. He was so desperate to get rid that he knew he risked starting the season with no recognised LBs in the senior squad to use.

Trippier moving to a huge club really didn't help as Rose (who already clearly rates himself far higher than he actually is) is now probably sitting waiting for the likes of Juve and PSG to come in for him. And I'd be amazed if that happened.

 

[Spudulike]

You've answered your own question. So has HBIC.

I think perhaps you guys are missing the point I'm making. If Poch knew full well he was going to have to rely on Rose for the early parts of the season, it's just plain dumb not to have him involved in pre-season for various obvious reasons that I simply can't be bothered to type.

We're playing Rose because we don't have a choice.

Yes we do. We play Verts.

 

[Hoddle is a god]

I just hope we beat Arsenal.

 

[PleaseNotPoll]

I suspect that a lot of this started because of Mourinho's presence at the Newcastle game.

 

[Dier Hard]

I suspect that a lot of this started because of Mourinho's presence at the Newcastle game.

Martin Jol > Juande Ramos part two.

 

[Citizen Kane.]

I suspect that a lot of this started because of Mourinho's presence at the Newcastle game.

I think he'd love the gig. The PL is easily his favourite league and I think he likes the glamour of managing a big London club (he hated living in "provincial" Manchester). The shiny new stadium will have caught his eye too. But the man is a coaching dinosaur and requires an open chequebook to sign players already in their peak to win trophies as part of endlessly repeating cycles of short-term plans. In other words, he is the Anti

 

[Hoddle is a god]

Mourhino would be a great experiment for us, should Poch leave.

 

[Spurlock]

I find myself agreeing completely with @remembercolinlee on all points regarding this situation.

Strangely or otherwise, I also find myself siding with Levy and the board as they have worked wonders these past few years (aside from the lack of transfer activity in the past couple of windows for reasons which can be argued). The stadium is incredible and I'm sure history will look back at that being a fantastic footballing and financial decision.

Poch got his transfer targets if reports are to be believed, so his unhappiness appears self-inflicted.

It appears to me that Poch is great with the players if all are onboard and everything is rosy. The second any of them show any signs of drifting, they are cut out and cast aside. In these situations Poch seems to be showing incredibly poor man management skills and extreme naivety. To leave Rose at home and then put him into the starting 11 for each league game this season is not only baffling, it's bordering on amateurish.

This is not the first time either. He did the same to Toby when he refused a new contract, only to then bring him back into the team after realising what a stupid decision that was.

Premier league match day performances since January have been by and large dire and that's down to Poch and his coaching team. He's gotten starting 11's, formations and tactics horribly wrong and repeatedly, time and again. If he can't figure out a way to beat busparquet tactics by now, then when will he?

I do wonder if his training regimes are getting repetitive and boring, with the players now getting to the point where it feels monotonous and uninspiring. Because having to witness the flat and lifeless matches of late has been draining.

I have to laugh at all this talk of a rebuild. That talk usually happens when a team has been successful at winning honours and it's about creating a new generation, a la Ferguson at United to continue that mould. But last time I checked we still hadn't won anything, so what are we rebuilding exactly? Another generation of sideways passers?

I've wondered at many times during this past year where Poch plans to take this club/team next in terms of playing style and mentality because so far, I see little change in the past 2-3 years. We've relied on the same core players, to play the same way. So is he a one trick wonder? I hope not but it does look to me that there is little inspiration or belief out there of late and I do suspect the players have reached a stage of wanting to be inspired by new ideas and I'm not sure Poch has anymore up his sleeve. If plan A doesn't work, this is no plan B.

Getting the hump and sulking isn't going to solve that. He needs to be seen as a leader, so start acting like one.

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[Spudulike]

Mourhino would be a great experiment for us, should Poch leave.

Oh lord no, please no no no no. I hate to bring up this kind of talk but I'd take a punt on Nuno Espírito Santo all day long.

 

[Hoddle is a god]

Oh lord no, please no no no no. I hate to bring up this kind of talk but I'd take a punt on Nuno Espírito Santo all day long.

Hop in, mate.

 

[deedub93]

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