Match Day Thread Tottenham Hotspur v Liverpool

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Just got back from NWHL. There will be a time to talk about the game and the ramifications from it, of which there are many. But right now I'm too emotionally drained to even think about discussing it.

As others have said the path forward is clear. This summer and in the years to come we will see just how 'brave' we can be. This Spurs team is far from perfect, it's not even Poch's best over his time with us, but they have given us all memories I hope we will cherish for a long time. For that, despite their deficiencies, I'm proud of them tonight, despite everything.

COYS, forever.
 
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I think Liverpool remembered a lot of our defeats last season. Just sit back in defence in numbers and watch Spurs go sideways and backwards and nowhere!
 
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It's been the problem that's plagued the end of our season, just can't quite unpick stubborn defences regularly enough.

Pretty good performance though. Slightly unlucky with the pen and then one great finish at the end kills it.

Still so glad we got to the final though. With a full preseason and hopefully a few signings, I see no reason we can't put ourselves in the mix again.
 
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No Kane No Gain said:
It's been the problem that's plagued the end of our season, just can't quite unpick stubborn defences regularly enough.
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It was a problem throughout the whole season. Before Christmas we managed to just do enough huffing and puffing to get the results, but in the second half of the campaign it didn’t go our way.
IMO a lot of it comes down to our opponents learning how to stop us because they’ve been playing against the same spurs team for years!
 
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Besides being massively hungover I'm just genuinely gutted.

To have grafted like we did against Dortmund/ City/ Ajax to then put in a performance like that in the biggest game in club football is devastating. We lost one of the worst CL finals in recent memory and that’s a sickener, because had we played well, Pool were there for the taking.

Feel so sorry for Lucas.
 
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Hugo Lloris sums it up perfectly in his post-match interview - after Liverpool benefitted from the fortunate penalty decision, they could manage the game how they wanted for the rest of the evening, and we were too passive until the last 15 minutes. You can argue ifs and buts about the Liverpool penalty and whether Kane should have had one towards the end, but the way the game ended up panning out, we did ourselves few favours.

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Ironically, this insightful analysis from our keeper and captain highlights one of his own drawbacks - if Hugo can see these problems at the time, then presumably Poch can too, so where were the instructions to speed it up? Could Llorente and Moura have been bought on sooner, to take us more direct? Could Lloris, Vertonghen, Kane, the players we all assume to be leaders on the pitch in the squad, not have been chivvying their teammates on more?

I think the issue we have, and we've had this all season especially against teams like Liverpool who press very well, is that our midfield without Dembele and our defence without two effective FBs is in no way press resistant. We've been playing quite laterally and without urgency anyway, but add in an effective press and its not good news for us. The only way we have to beat it is a long ball to the forwards, and without Llorente on the pitch, it doesn't work very often. But we have too many AMs/forwards who expect to start to always pick Llorente - Poch has never found a truly sure-fire way to fit Dele, Eriksen, Son and Kane into a starting XI, let alone adding Moura and maybe Llorente into the mix. So we end up with a lot of players playing who want to play in similar areas of the pitch. Eriksen leaving will be very sad but I cling to the hope that it could be our 'Coutinho moment'.

The next 12 months we see what this club, and the players who stay, are really made of. The issues are clear enough that our Captain can sum it up in three minutes to the press. Fix them, and add to the team in key areas, and the future is bright.
 
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We played all right. We had nearly two thirds of the possession and after the penalty had 8 shots on target to their two. The two best chances fell to Lucas who couldn’t quite sort his feet out for either.
It will sound like sour grapes but I said a few months back that the penalty area needed to be got rid of. You should be awarded a penalty goal for denying a clear goal scoring opportunity and a free kick for all other offences. Sissoko was unwise to have his arm up but he wasn’t trying to block so It was very harsh in any case.
 
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The Huddlefro said:
I think the issue we have, and we've had this all season especially against teams like Liverpool who press very well, is that our midfield without Dembele and our defence without two effective FBs is in no way press resistant. We've been playing quite laterally and without urgency anyway, but add in an effective press and its not good news for us. The only way we have to beat it is a long ball to the forwards, and without Llorente on the pitch, it doesn't work very often. But we have too many AMs/forwards who expect to start to always pick Llorente - Poch has never found a truly sure-fire way to fit Dele, Eriksen, Son and Kane into a starting XI, let alone adding Moura and maybe Llorente into the mix. So we end up with a lot of players playing who want to play in similar areas of the pitch. Eriksen leaving will be very sad but I cling to the hope that it could be our 'Coutinho moment'.
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This!! <applause>

And as time has gone on, the loss of Kyle Walker has been more and more apparent.
 
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Actually I think their defence should receive the most credit. We could not play through them in our normal way at all. The only way was with crosses or long balls and we did not produce enough of them. Kane realised that in the end as he and Son made no headway during much of the game. We should have made more of it because we did well in midfield perhaps Llorente from the start rather than Lucas.

But all this is hindsight. We played in a CL final, let's do it again.
 
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Spurf said:
Actually I think their defence should receive the most credit. We could not play through them in our normal way at all. The only way was with crosses or long balls and we did not produce enough of them. Kane realised that in the end as he and Son made no headway during much of the game. We should have made more of it because we did well in midfield perhaps Llorente from the start rather than Lucas.

But all this is hindsight. We played in a CL final, let's do it again.
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What’s frustrating Spurf, is this happened last time we played them. I had a feeling it would be the same again. It was like deja vu for VVD, and Matip also complimented him perfectly in defense. I’m not sure It would have been any different for Llorente either, as it still would have played to VVD’s strengths.

Regardless of whether Kane should have started or not, looking back, IMO it was actually crazy to drop a player who scored a Hattrick in the semi final. - especially with the recent performances of Eriksen and Dele. How there wasn’t a starting spot in that line up for Lucas last night is beyond me.
 
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Roo said:
What’s frustrating Spurf, is this happened last time we played them. I had a feeling it would be the same again. It was like deja vu for VVD, and Matip also complimented him perfectly in defense. I’m not sure It would have been any different for Llorente either, as it still would have played to VVD’s strengths.

Regardless of whether Kane should have started or not, looking back, IMO it was actually crazy to drop a player who scored a Hattrick in the semi final. - especially with the recent performances of Eriksen and Dele. How there wasn’t a starting spot in that line up for Lucas last night is beyond me.
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Maybe but Lucas may well have had the same problems as Son & Kane. He scored a hatrick yes but you have to consider the opposition. As you say we have not beaten them at all this season although we have given them a good game each time. They are the European Champions we cannot expect anything other than a very tough game and so far our usual methods have not worked against them. Therefore play Llorente and balls in the air.
 
Roo said:
What’s frustrating Spurf, is this happened last time we played them. I had a feeling it would be the same again. It was like deja vu for VVD, and Matip also complimented him perfectly in defense. I’m not sure It would have been any different for Llorente either, as it still would have played to VVD’s strengths.

Regardless of whether Kane should have started or not, looking back, IMO it was actually crazy to drop a player who scored a Hattrick in the semi final. - especially with the recent performances of Eriksen and Dele. How there wasn’t a starting spot in that line up for Lucas last night is beyond me.
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The saddest thing is, Kane probably finished up the best of the attacking players on the pitch. Son, Alli and Eriksen were all very poor, especially Alli, who I think after this season needs to take a good look at himself, whilst Lucas couldn’t really get going when he came on.

I really do feel so sorry for Lucas. I can understand wanting to bring in Kane and Winks into the side but dropping the guy who took us to the final is - for me - terrible, terrible management. He was the attacker in form too, Son had been poor ever since his City goals, Alli has been gash for most of the season whilst Eriksen has been hot and cold throughout.

We didn’t lose purely because of that choice to drop him but it certainly didn’t help.
 
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Dier Hard said:
The saddest thing is, Kane probably finished up the best of the attacking players on the pitch. Son, Alli and Eriksen were all very poor, especially Alli, who I think after this season needs to take a good look at himself, whilst Lucas couldn’t really get going when he came on.

I really do feel so sorry for Lucas. I can understand wanting to bring in Kane and Winks into the side but dropping the guy who took us to the final is - for me - terrible, terrible management. He was the attacker in form too, Son had been poor ever since his City goals, Alli has been gash for most of the season whilst Eriksen has been hot and cold throughout.

We didn’t lose purely because of that choice to drop him but it certainly didn’t help.
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All top managers make decisions like dropping Lucas. It's what makes them top managers. It's far too simple to pick players on the basis of what they did in the last game or on sentiment. All the great managers have made decisions like that, from Ramsey dropping Greaves, to Fergusson with his super subs or Clough dropping Francis. These are the decisions a manager is paid for. One of the problems is 'form' you never know when it will go or when it will return.
 
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From the moment the ref awarded the penalty there was a strange inevitability about how the game was going to pan out. It was a very odd match and I am sure the 3 week break coupled with the conditions played their part as did the decision for us to play 2 of the players who had missed alot of football recently.

But Poch picked the team that most of us if pushed would say is our strongest XI, but they came up just short. As finals often are it was a match of small margins and we come out on the wrong side in these games more often than we should or would like.

Now is the time for big decisions, and to move on - this team in its current format has had its day and come up short once to often. Wholesale changes not required, but more strength in midfield and a new right back are the minimum requirements, but I would not be surprised if Trippier, Dier and Eriksen wore our colours for the last time last night, and Alli has a very big season ahead of him if he is going fulfill his huge potential. I am hoping that we get the personnel in to play 433 more often next season as we are looking stale at the moment and need to have more options for when Play A is not working.
 
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Spurf said:
All top managers make decisions like dropping Lucas. It's what makes them top managers. It's far too simple to pick players on the basis of what they did in the last game or on sentiment. All the great managers have made decisions like that, from Ramsey dropping Greaves, to Fergusson with his super subs or Clough dropping Francis. These are the decisions a manager is paid for. One of the problems is 'form' you never know when it will go or when it will return.
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It’s not just sentiment or what he done in Amsterdam, he was also the closest we had to an attacker in-form in the last batch of games of the season. Son had been terrible since Man City, Dele has been poor for most of the season whilst Eriksen has been hot and cold.

Form is difficult to predict, I agree, but you don’t ever drop a player in form, you drop them once their form has dipped.

Huge mistake from Poch for me.
 
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