A Labour, LibDem, Green coalition isn’t that difficult to envisage.
Politics is all about compromise
Off Topic Politics Thread
- Thread starter ChilcoSaint
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A Labour, LibDem, Green coalition isn’t that difficult to envisage.
Politics is all about compromise
I’d say that after the last three years, Politics is all About non-compromise!
The UK public has a generally majority centre left sensibility and it's about time that these parties joined together and not fight each other IMO.
Exactly why things need to change Fats. Somehow, this divided nation needs to come back together - that will require compromise on all sides
They’ll probably still fight each other; just so long as they can shake hands and agree on a way forward, after the fight.
It would have made sense for the MEP elections certainly. One remain candidate instead of three would have seen the number of remain seats reflect the remain vote. Now we have Nigel "gatemouth*" Farage gobbing off streams of ****e about his mandate.
*Not to be confused with Clarence "gatemouth" Brown eminent blues musician.
His last point is important and maybe, though I knew it, not one I’d given enough credit to. I.E. That our MAIN bargaining power outside the EU is that we are in the single market. Not one of, MAIN!
And that we don’t really have much else to bargain with!
Pretty much like a lot of politicians then? Blair/Clegg/Cameron etc etc
I have absolutely no doubt that the Lib-Dems will not enter any future coalition arrangements and for some ‘Labour’ supporters they’re too
right wing anyway (LD’s) that is.
It's not difficult to imagine...if Labour seriously revises its position on Brexit. And if Labour is willing to make that pivot, they really ought to consider doing it before they get decimated, heh.
Hey Schad, I've just been doing some reading up on the Koch brothers. They make the Conservative party here look like budding communists. Just to remind you, they sit on a weatlh of $80 Billion, and have the 2nd largest privately owned business in the USA - Oil and Gas, of course. During the 80s and 90s they went to court against each other, presumably over money amounts, and how one deserved more than the other. But what really floored me was that one of them, David Koch, stood for election in 1980 under the Libertarian Party banner. Here's some of the stuff they stood for [copied and pasted, so the English is American spelling]
If there were organs in the body called 'Empathy' and 'Compassion', people like these would have undoubtedly had them surgically removed.
- “We urge the repeal of federal campaign finance laws, and the immediate abolition of the despotic Federal Election Commission.”
- “We favor the abolition of Medicare and Medicaid programs.”
- “We oppose any compulsory insurance or tax-supported plan to provide health services, including those which finance abortion services.”
- “We also favor the deregulation of the medical insurance industry.”
- “We favor the repeal of the fraudulent, virtually bankrupt, and increasingly oppressive Social Security system. Pending that repeal, participation in Social Security should be made voluntary.”
- “We propose the abolition of the governmental Postal Service. The present system, in addition to being inefficient, encourages governmental surveillance of private correspondence. Pending abolition, we call for an end to the monopoly system and for allowing free competition in all aspects of postal service.”
- “We oppose all personal and corporate income taxation, including capital gains taxes.”
- “We support the eventual repeal of all taxation.”
- “As an interim measure, all criminal and civil sanctions against tax evasion should be terminated immediately.”
- “We support repeal of all law which impede the ability of any person to find employment, such as minimum wage laws.”
- “We advocate the complete separation of education and State. Government schools lead to the indoctrination of children and interfere with the free choice of individuals. Government ownership, operation, regulation, and subsidy of schools and colleges should be ended.”
- “We condemn compulsory education laws … and we call for the immediate repeal of such laws.”
- “We support the repeal of all taxes on the income or property of private schools, whether profit or non-profit.”
- “We support the abolition of the Environmental Protection Agency.”
- “We support abolition of the Department of Energy.”
- “We call for the dissolution of all government agencies concerned with transportation, including the Department of Transportation.”
- “We demand the return of America's railroad system to private ownership. We call for the privatization of the public roads and national highway system.”
- “We specifically oppose laws requiring an individual to buy or use so-called "self-protection" equipment such as safety belts, air bags, or crash helmets.”
- “We advocate the abolition of the Federal Aviation Administration.”
- “We advocate the abolition of the Food and Drug Administration.”
- “We support an end to all subsidies for child-bearing built into our present laws, including all welfare plans and the provision of tax-supported services for children.”
- “We oppose all government welfare, relief projects, and ‘aid to the poor’ programs. All these government programs are privacy-invading, paternalistic, demeaning, and inefficient. The proper source of help for such persons is the voluntary efforts of private groups and individuals.”
- “We call for the privatization of the inland waterways, and of the distribution system that brings water to industry, agriculture and households.”
- “We call for the repeal of the Occupational Safety and Health Act.”
- “We call for the abolition of the Consumer Product Safety Commission.”
- “We support the repeal of all state usury laws.”
If there were organs in the body called 'Empathy' and 'Compassion', people like these would have undoubtedly had them surgically removed.
If those points are verified then what upstanding members they are.Hey Schad, I've just been doing some reading up on the Koch brothers. They make the Conservative party here look like budding communists. Just to remind you, they sit on a weatlh of $80 Billion, and have the 2nd largest privately owned business in the USA - Oil and Gas, of course. During the 80s and 90s they went to court against each other, presumably over money amounts, and how one deserved more than the other. But what really floored me was that one of them, David Koch, stood for election in 1980 under the Libertarian Party banner. Here's some of the stuff they stood for [copied and pasted, so the English is American spelling]
I mean WTF? So really, they wanted a total dog eat dog world where the strongest survived and the weakest went to the wall. What a fun place to live. Well, yeah just for them. Of course, the main reason for me putting this turd up is that you can see echoes of it in right-wing manifestos, And they'd get closer to this stuff if they thought they could get away with it.
- “We urge the repeal of federal campaign finance laws, and the immediate abolition of the despotic Federal Election Commission.”
- “We favor the abolition of Medicare and Medicaid programs.”
- “We oppose any compulsory insurance or tax-supported plan to provide health services, including those which finance abortion services.”
- “We also favor the deregulation of the medical insurance industry.”
- “We favor the repeal of the fraudulent, virtually bankrupt, and increasingly oppressive Social Security system. Pending that repeal, participation in Social Security should be made voluntary.”
- “We propose the abolition of the governmental Postal Service. The present system, in addition to being inefficient, encourages governmental surveillance of private correspondence. Pending abolition, we call for an end to the monopoly system and for allowing free competition in all aspects of postal service.”
- “We oppose all personal and corporate income taxation, including capital gains taxes.”
- “We support the eventual repeal of all taxation.”
- “As an interim measure, all criminal and civil sanctions against tax evasion should be terminated immediately.”
- “We support repeal of all law which impede the ability of any person to find employment, such as minimum wage laws.”
- “We advocate the complete separation of education and State. Government schools lead to the indoctrination of children and interfere with the free choice of individuals. Government ownership, operation, regulation, and subsidy of schools and colleges should be ended.”
- “We condemn compulsory education laws … and we call for the immediate repeal of such laws.”
- “We support the repeal of all taxes on the income or property of private schools, whether profit or non-profit.”
- “We support the abolition of the Environmental Protection Agency.”
- “We support abolition of the Department of Energy.”
- “We call for the dissolution of all government agencies concerned with transportation, including the Department of Transportation.”
- “We demand the return of America's railroad system to private ownership. We call for the privatization of the public roads and national highway system.”
- “We specifically oppose laws requiring an individual to buy or use so-called "self-protection" equipment such as safety belts, air bags, or crash helmets.”
- “We advocate the abolition of the Federal Aviation Administration.”
- “We advocate the abolition of the Food and Drug Administration.”
- “We support an end to all subsidies for child-bearing built into our present laws, including all welfare plans and the provision of tax-supported services for children.”
- “We oppose all government welfare, relief projects, and ‘aid to the poor’ programs. All these government programs are privacy-invading, paternalistic, demeaning, and inefficient. The proper source of help for such persons is the voluntary efforts of private groups and individuals.”
- “We call for the privatization of the inland waterways, and of the distribution system that brings water to industry, agriculture and households.”
- “We call for the repeal of the Occupational Safety and Health Act.”
- “We call for the abolition of the Consumer Product Safety Commission.”
- “We support the repeal of all state usury laws.”
If there were organs in the body called 'Empathy' and 'Compassion', people like these would have undoubtedly had them surgically removed.
Well they sound like a fun couple of good ol’ boys!Hey Schad, I've just been doing some reading up on the Koch brothers. They make the Conservative party here look like budding communists. Just to remind you, they sit on a weatlh of $80 Billion, and have the 2nd largest privately owned business in the USA - Oil and Gas, of course. During the 80s and 90s they went to court against each other, presumably over money amounts, and how one deserved more than the other. But what really floored me was that one of them, David Koch, stood for election in 1980 under the Libertarian Party banner. Here's some of the stuff they stood for [copied and pasted, so the English is American spelling]
I mean WTF? So really, they wanted a total dog eat dog world where the strongest survived and the weakest went to the wall. What a fun place to live. Well, yeah just for them. Of course, the main reason for me putting this turd up is that you can see echoes of it in right-wing manifestos, And they'd get closer to this stuff if they thought they could get away with it.
- “We urge the repeal of federal campaign finance laws, and the immediate abolition of the despotic Federal Election Commission.”
- “We favor the abolition of Medicare and Medicaid programs.”
- “We oppose any compulsory insurance or tax-supported plan to provide health services, including those which finance abortion services.”
- “We also favor the deregulation of the medical insurance industry.”
- “We favor the repeal of the fraudulent, virtually bankrupt, and increasingly oppressive Social Security system. Pending that repeal, participation in Social Security should be made voluntary.”
- “We propose the abolition of the governmental Postal Service. The present system, in addition to being inefficient, encourages governmental surveillance of private correspondence. Pending abolition, we call for an end to the monopoly system and for allowing free competition in all aspects of postal service.”
- “We oppose all personal and corporate income taxation, including capital gains taxes.”
- “We support the eventual repeal of all taxation.”
- “As an interim measure, all criminal and civil sanctions against tax evasion should be terminated immediately.”
- “We support repeal of all law which impede the ability of any person to find employment, such as minimum wage laws.”
- “We advocate the complete separation of education and State. Government schools lead to the indoctrination of children and interfere with the free choice of individuals. Government ownership, operation, regulation, and subsidy of schools and colleges should be ended.”
- “We condemn compulsory education laws … and we call for the immediate repeal of such laws.”
- “We support the repeal of all taxes on the income or property of private schools, whether profit or non-profit.”
- “We support the abolition of the Environmental Protection Agency.”
- “We support abolition of the Department of Energy.”
- “We call for the dissolution of all government agencies concerned with transportation, including the Department of Transportation.”
- “We demand the return of America's railroad system to private ownership. We call for the privatization of the public roads and national highway system.”
- “We specifically oppose laws requiring an individual to buy or use so-called "self-protection" equipment such as safety belts, air bags, or crash helmets.”
- “We advocate the abolition of the Federal Aviation Administration.”
- “We advocate the abolition of the Food and Drug Administration.”
- “We support an end to all subsidies for child-bearing built into our present laws, including all welfare plans and the provision of tax-supported services for children.”
- “We oppose all government welfare, relief projects, and ‘aid to the poor’ programs. All these government programs are privacy-invading, paternalistic, demeaning, and inefficient. The proper source of help for such persons is the voluntary efforts of private groups and individuals.”
- “We call for the privatization of the inland waterways, and of the distribution system that brings water to industry, agriculture and households.”
- “We call for the repeal of the Occupational Safety and Health Act.”
- “We call for the abolition of the Consumer Product Safety Commission.”
- “We support the repeal of all state usury laws.”
If there were organs in the body called 'Empathy' and 'Compassion', people like these would have undoubtedly had them surgically removed.
Nothing about the legalisation of the Ku Klux Klan, or private armies for rich people?
Basically, they stood for less government interference where it suited their needs. Everything was aimed at making life easier and simpler for them, and to allow them to exploit, in an almost limitless way, their environment and the people within it, to their own ends. And there were ordinary people supporting this sh*te, who the Koch brothers would have undoubtedly exploited and cast off when they were no longer useful. That's how stupid some people can be. People need protection from exploitation because not everyone is the brightest, nor does everyone have an acute business sense with zero conscience. And the Koch brothers? Even certain Fascists have had more heart.
As to the Klu Klux Klan and private armies. Come on, these guys had to get themselves elected first.
Oh and btw, they are still one of the biggest lobbyists of the USA Republican Party.
As to the Klu Klux Klan and private armies. Come on, these guys had to get themselves elected first.
Oh and btw, they are still one of the biggest lobbyists of the USA Republican Party.
peal of all state usury laws.”
I mean WTF? So really, they wanted a total dog eat dog world where the strongest survived and the weakest went to the wall. What a fun place to live. Well, yeah just for them. Of course, the main reason for me putting this turd up is that you can see echoes of it in right-wing manifestos, And they'd get closer to this stuff if they thought they could get away with it.
If there were organs in the body called 'Empathy' and 'Compassion', people like these would have undoubtedly had them surgically removed.
Yeah, when I mentioned the truly pernicious money, it's people like the Kochs. They fund an incredibly large network of 501(c)(3) "advocacy groups"/astroturfing organizations, while also pumping huge amounts of money into election advertising campaigns on behalf of state/federal candidates for the GOP. You might not be able to buy a Congressman for a few thousand dollars, but if you're spending a couple million to elect state representatives (in campaigns where you might be significantly outspending every other source combined), you can be certain that your agenda will be their agenda. It's part of the reason that the GOP dominated in state elections for a period...they recognized that the return on investment was much higher targeting those lower-level races, and buying judgeships (some judges are elected; it's mad), etc.
And the return on investment is exceptional; even if you are spending hundreds of millions per election cycle, as the Kochs do, it's been estimated that every dollar of lobbying spending has a return of between 5-10x.
Alas, had the Democrats won in 2016, this likely would have changed...it's mostly the result of a truly awful Supreme Court decision that declared money to be a form of speech, and the Democrats could have (and would have) changed the composition of the court such that Citizens United would have likely been overturned. But now it could be a decade or more...possibly quite a bit more.
Yeah, I've read that the Supreme Court decision, [from 2010?] to side with Citizens United meant that billionaires and large corporations were now able to spend unlimited amounts of money to influence the political process.
BTW, I keep seeing 'astroturfing' and I'm not getting it.
From Wiki:
Astroturfing is the practice of masking the sponsors of a message or organization (e.g., political, advertising, religious or public relations) to make it appear as though it originates from and is supported by grassroots participants. It is a practice intended to give the statements or organizations credibility by withholding information about the source's financial connection. The term astroturfing is derived from AstroTurf, a brand of synthetic carpeting designed to resemble natural grass, as a play on the word "grassroots". The implication behind the use of the term is that instead of a "true" or "natural" grassroots effort behind the activity in question, there is a "fake" or "artificial" appearance of support.
Maybe I'm having a particularly thick day, but even the explanation seems a little vague, and I've read it through twice. I do understand it now, cheers Chilco.
Astroturf = "fake grassroots". Basically, organizations set up to look like local advocacy groups, which are actually financed by dark money from elsewhere. Sample names for organizations would be "New Jersey Moms For Open-Pit Mining" or some such.