Off Topic The Politics Thread

[Star of David Bardsley]

he wished his had been a milkshake

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Well yeah, obviously.

 

[QPR Oslo]

To the extent that one can believe opinion polls, Brexit Party support is neck & neck with Remain parties. Indications are that it’ll be close to a rerun of the referendum result.

Even if the outcome is 52-48 in favour of Remain parties this time there’s still an undeniably huge body of support for Brexit in this country.

Only an utter prick would conclude that every single one of those Brexit supporters was an unhinged, piss-ridden octogenarian xenophobic racist. A reasonable person would accept that a significant proportion - I would say vast majority - voted to leave the EU for perfectly sound, rational reasons based on little more than the belief that this country and its peoples will be better off in the longer term by doing so,

It’s OK to disagree, of course, but let’s not make the mistake of slurring those with whom you do disagree.

I agree with you about the specific type of racist you describe !, but I think a lot of racists support Leave. The data I posted from the Opinium survey I posted (and there was more, I'll post the whole thing later) show racist abuse, attacks and racial descrimination of ethnic minorities, on a significant increase since just before the referendum campaign kicked off. If you are not racist why do you and so many vote for UKIP or a Farage led party using dodgy funding, especially following on from what we see the alt right in Austria have been up to, and had to resign, en masse.

 

[rangercol]

I agree with you about the specific type of racist you describe !, but I think a lot of racists support Leave. The data I posted from the Opinium survey I posted (and there was more, I'll post the whole thing later) show racist abuse, attacks and racial descrimination of ethnic minorities, on a significant increase since just before the referendum campaign kicked off. If you are not racist why do you and so many vote for UKIP or a Farage led party using dodgy funding, especially following on from what we see the alt right in Austria have been up to, and had to resign, en masse.

For ****'s sake!!!!

 

[Uber_Hoop]

I agree with you about the specific type of racist you describe !, but I think a lot of racists support Leave. The data I posted from the Opinium survey I posted (and there was more, I'll post the whole thing later) show racist abuse, attacks and racial descrimination of ethnic minorities, on a significant increase since just before the referendum campaign kicked off. If you are not racist why do you and so many vote for UKIP or a Farage led party using dodgy funding, especially following on from what we see the alt right in Austria have been up to, and had to resign, en masse.

There’s a lot of bile in that, Os. Reading that, one may be forgiven for believing that whatever one’s reasons for voting Leave certain people with opposing views will always label you a racist because it’s easy.

I can honestly say that my reason for voting Leave was similar to Col’s, ie sovereignty. And, yes, I accept all the arguments around WTF sovereignty is these days. But, what I didn’t want it to be was the evermore drift of decision-making to the continent.

The racist slur, to me, is interesting. Leaving the EU may mean the end to the free movement of peoples between the UK and continental Europe. If I were a racist - and I’m not, so I may be off beam here - then I rather think I’d be more concerned with stopping the migration of people with a different coloured skin than my fellow Europeans.

Leaving the EU doesn’t stop people from Asia and elsewhere applying to settle in this country. The UK has a proud record of such immigration and many sectors, particularly medicine, have benefited greatly.

What Leave would/should put a stop to, however, is the attempted immigration to the UK from people that have been first let into the EU by other member states, themselves safe in the knowledge that these people are just passing through. I don’t see concerns about this as being racist. It seems quite sensible to me to wish for a better system than the Calais camps and whatever. Quite what that system might be I’m not quite sure.

I suspect this is probably a racist point of view to somebody that thinks we should leave the door ajar to everybody, but the concerns are legitimate.

They’re just not the primary reason why I voted Leave.

 

[bobmid]

There’s a lot of bile in that, Os. Reading that, one may be forgiven for believing that whatever one’s reasons for voting Leave certain people with opposing views will always label you a racist because it’s easy.

I can honestly say that my reason for voting Leave was similar to Col’s, ie sovereignty. And, yes, I accept all the arguments around WTF sovereignty is these days. But, what I didn’t want it to be was the evermore drift of decision-making to the continent.

The racist slur, to me, is interesting. Leaving the EU may mean the end to the free movement of peoples between the UK and continental Europe. If I were a racist - and I’m not, so I may be off beam here - then I rather think I’d be more concerned with stopping the migration of people with a different coloured skin than my fellow Europeans.

Leaving the EU doesn’t stop people from Asia and elsewhere applying to settle in this country. The UK has a proud record of such immigration and many sectors, particularly medicine, have benefited greatly.

What Leave would/should put a stop to, however, is the attempted immigration to the UK from people that have been first let into the EU by other member states, themselves safe in the knowledge that these people are just passing through. I don’t see concerns about this as being racist. It seems quite sensible to me to wish for a better system than the Calais camps and whatever. Quite what that system might be I’m not quite sure.

I suspect this is probably a racist point of view to somebody that thinks we should leave the door ajar to everybody, but the concerns are legitimate.

They’re just not the primary reason why I voted Leave.

I dont think racism is an issue in wanting to leave the EU. Frustration is now the key element in Farages party escalating. If and when we leave the EU, non EU migration will seriously increase into this country, which I presume Leave voters dont mind, hence i cant understand how or why they could be called racist.

 

[Uber_Hoop]

I dont think racism is an issue in wanting to leave the EU. Frustration is now the key element in Farages party escalating. If and when we leave the EU, non EU migration will seriously increase into this country, which I presume Leave voters dont mind, hence i cant understand how or why they could be called racist.

Very well put, Bob. What I was ultimately trying to say, but failed.

 

[bobmid]

Very well put, Bob. What I was ultimately trying to say, but failed.

The label of Racism is thrown about too easily. I think John Barnes said it best on QT that time. We all deep down have some fears/anxieties, people would be lying if they said they didnt. I personally will be voting for a remain party. I appreciate and acknowledge the frustration of those who voted leave and wont knock anyone for how they vote. We all have our reasons and very few (if any) will change their minds due to a few statistics or articles people post on here!

 

[kiwiqpr]

I agree with you about the specific type of racist you describe !, but I think a lot of racists support Leave. The data I posted from the Opinium survey I posted (and there was more, I'll post the whole thing later) show racist abuse, attacks and racial descrimination of ethnic minorities, on a significant increase since just before the referendum campaign kicked off. If you are not racist why do you and so many vote for UKIP or a Farage led party using dodgy funding, especially following on from what we see the alt right in Austria have been up to, and had to resign, en masse.

What's the dodgy funding

 

[rangercol]

There’s a lot of bile in that, Os. Reading that, one may be forgiven for believing that whatever one’s reasons for voting Leave certain people with opposing views will always label you a racist because it’s easy.

I can honestly say that my reason for voting Leave was similar to Col’s, ie sovereignty. And, yes, I accept all the arguments around WTF sovereignty is these days. But, what I didn’t want it to be was the evermore drift of decision-making to the continent.

The racist slur, to me, is interesting. Leaving the EU may mean the end to the free movement of peoples between the UK and continental Europe. If I were a racist - and I’m not, so I may be off beam here - then I rather think I’d be more concerned with stopping the migration of people with a different coloured skin than my fellow Europeans.

Leaving the EU doesn’t stop people from Asia and elsewhere applying to settle in this country. The UK has a proud record of such immigration and many sectors, particularly medicine, have benefited greatly.

What Leave would/should put a stop to, however, is the attempted immigration to the UK from people that have been first let into the EU by other member states, themselves safe in the knowledge that these people are just passing through. I don’t see concerns about this as being racist. It seems quite sensible to me to wish for a better system than the Calais camps and whatever. Quite what that system might be I’m not quite sure.

I suspect this is probably a racist point of view to somebody that thinks we should leave the door ajar to everybody, but the concerns are legitimate.

They’re just not the primary reason why I voted Leave.

Bile is spot on.

Thanks for replying so eloquently, as I was on the verge of incurring the wrath of the mods.

Certain people on here really need to stop with these insinuations.

 

[Stroller]

To the extent that one can believe opinion polls, Brexit Party support is neck & neck with Remain parties. Indications are that it’ll be close to a rerun of the referendum result.

Even if the outcome is 52-48 in favour of Remain parties this time there’s still an undeniably huge body of support for Brexit in this country.

Only an utter prick would conclude that every single one of those Brexit supporters was an unhinged, piss-ridden octogenarian xenophobic racist. A reasonable person would accept that a significant proportion - I would say vast majority - voted to leave the EU for perfectly sound, rational reasons based on little more than the belief that this country and its peoples will be better off in the longer term by doing so,

It’s OK to disagree, of course, but let’s not make the mistake of slurring those with whom you do disagree.

It's kind of ironic, don't you think, that those who will be supporting the Brexit Party in the EU elections seem keen for it to be looked upon as a re-run of the 2016 referendum (because they think they are going to win), but are ****-scared of having an actual further referendum on whatever deal (or lack of) that we will eventually be presented with. Were this new referendum to take place, it would not be a re-run of 2016, but a new referendum on something tangible - the terms of our leaving, or otherwise.

By the way, for those whose reason for voting Leave was sovereignty and accountability, does anybody know when the next WTO elections are?

Of course a significant proportion of Leave voters had perfectly sound reasons for supporting Brexit. No one on here has said otherwise, despite the regular, and sometimes hysterical, accusations to the contrary. My contention has been, and remains, that the fear of immigration - deliberately stoked by the likes of Farage with his shameful (and yes, racist) poster - was the biggest single (but not only) factor in Leave winning the day. Did you see the clip that awjm (I think) posted of Farage with Bannon? Bannon knew exactly how to swing the referendum vote.

Wanting to 'get rid of the Muslims' was not a perfectly sound reason to vote Leave.

DISCLAIMER:
In suggesting that some Leave voters were racist, I am not in any way implying that all were.

 

[QPR Oslo]

What's the dodgy funding

The electoral commission are supposed to be visiting his offices today re allegations of improper funding. The EU are supposed to be looking at his non-disclosure of lavish gifts and funding from Arron Banks as an MEP, (think I read he's been done by them before) and there is an ongoing investigation going on in the US in connection with Arron Banks.

 

[Sooperhoop]

The EU, that bastion of accountability and transparency, investigating dodgy funding is beyond parody. Send in the clowns...

 

[Goldhawk-Road]

The EU, that bastion of accountability and transparency, investigating dodgy funding is beyond parody. Send in the clowns...

I'm fully expecting the EU dirty tricks department to fit Farage up

 

[Frome-Ranger]

I dont think racism is an issue in wanting to leave the EU. Frustration is now the key element in Farages party escalating. If and when we leave the EU, non EU migration will seriously increase into this country, which I presume Leave voters dont mind, hence i cant understand how or why they could be called racist.

I do believe that a lot leave voters (not all) wouldn't have even thought about non EU migration.

 

[colognehornet]

There’s a lot of bile in that, Os. Reading that, one may be forgiven for believing that whatever one’s reasons for voting Leave certain people with opposing views will always label you a racist because it’s easy.

I can honestly say that my reason for voting Leave was similar to Col’s, ie sovereignty. And, yes, I accept all the arguments around WTF sovereignty is these days. But, what I didn’t want it to be was the evermore drift of decision-making to the continent.

The racist slur, to me, is interesting. Leaving the EU may mean the end to the free movement of peoples between the UK and continental Europe. If I were a racist - and I’m not, so I may be off beam here - then I rather think I’d be more concerned with stopping the migration of people with a different coloured skin than my fellow Europeans.

Leaving the EU doesn’t stop people from Asia and elsewhere applying to settle in this country. The UK has a proud record of such immigration and many sectors, particularly medicine, have benefited greatly.

What Leave would/should put a stop to, however, is the attempted immigration to the UK from people that have been first let into the EU by other member states, themselves safe in the knowledge that these people are just passing through. I don’t see concerns about this as being racist. It seems quite sensible to me to wish for a better system than the Calais camps and whatever. Quite what that system might be I’m not quite sure.

I suspect this is probably a racist point of view to somebody that thinks we should leave the door ajar to everybody, but the concerns are legitimate.

They’re just not the primary reason why I voted Leave.

Never quite understood the issue of sovereignty, and why so many people have a problem with the idea of pooled sovereignty. Surely sovereignty begins with the individual and we then pool this when we become members of a society - we give up some rights in order to have others better protected. The pooled sovereignty of a city, or nation state is stronger than that which you would have as an individual - so why do we have so much difficulty admitting that the pooled sovereignty which we have in the EU. is greater than that which a nation state can give you ? Will there be any sovereignty in Britain chasing TTIP type deals with the rest of the World to compensate for the loss of EU membership, and that through a position of weakness, where we need those deals more than our new partners ?

 

[Steelmonkey]

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[Goldhawk-Road]

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So according to Rifkind, we are dependent on the EU in order to make trade agreements with the rest of the world, and if we lose that, we're ****ed.

Makes you wonder how we managed to trade worldwide over the 1000 years before we joined the Common Market

 

[colognehornet]

So according to Rifkind, we are dependent on the EU in order to make trade agreements with the rest of the world, and if we lose that, we're ****ed.

Makes you wonder how we managed to trade worldwide over the 1000 years before we joined the Common Market

The heart of the argument is that, as EU members, we have existing trade agreements or preferential trade conditions with around 50 markets in the World as a result of our EU membership. All these would have to be renegotiated individually in the case of a hard Brexit.

 

[Goldhawk-Road]

The heart of the argument is that, as EU members, we have existing trade agreements or preferential trade conditions with around 50 markets in the World as a result of our EU membership. All these would have to be renegotiated individually in the case of a hard Brexit.

Sure, it's a fact with transition to WTO. Let's leave and get on with it.

No 3rd party country of worth wants to negotiate a deal at the moment because (1) we're not allowed to enter any under EU rules, and (2) many countries aren't convinced we're going to leave so don't want to devote the time

 

[Stroller]

May to offer MPs a vote on a confirmatory referendum. Might swing it.