Hugo Lloris

[PowerSpurs]

He comes in for some criticism on here but he is regularly near the top of the CIES stats. This is a good discussion of why.

https://www.skysports.com/amp/footb...errated-the-tottenham-captains-stats-stack-up

 

[Citizen Kane.]

He comes in for some criticism on here but he is regularly near the top of the CIES stats. This is a good discussion of why.

https://www.skysports.com/amp/footb...errated-the-tottenham-captains-stats-stack-up

"Expected goals on target calculates the likelihood of a goal going in based on the location from which the shot was taken, the type of shot, and where on the target it was struck. This makes it a useful tool with which to measure how many goals that a goalkeeper might have been expected to concede from the shots that they have had to face."

What a load of bs, using imaginary mental somersaults to come up with meaningless statistics to support a predetermined conclusion. This guy is basically being paid to design lots of bar graphs and pie charts.

Bottom line is what we all know to be true: Hugo is a superb shot stopper and generally excellent sweeper who has bog-awful distribution and is prone to brain farts in high pressure games. He is however currently easily the best keeper we could afford as the 3 in the PL who I think are better than him (Allison, Ederson and De Gea) are all well beyond our means to buy.

 

[The Huddlefro]

"Expected goals on target calculates the likelihood of a goal going in based on the location from which the shot was taken, the type of shot, and where on the target it was struck. This makes it a useful tool with which to measure how many goals that a goalkeeper might have been expected to concede from the shots that they have had to face."

What a load of bs, using imaginary mental somersaults to come up with meaningless statistics to support a predetermined conclusion. This guy is basically being paid to design lots of bar graphs and pie charts.

Bottom line is what we all know to be true: Hugo is a superb shot stopper and generally excellent sweeper who has bog-awful distribution and is prone to brain farts in high pressure games. He is however currently easily the best keeper we could afford as the 3 in the PL who I think are better than him (Allison, Ederson and De Gea) are all well beyond our means to buy.

I agree with a lot of this CK but I think the other factor to consider is whether Hugo’s captaincy is holding us back.

I think he’s barely an adequate captain and that a more vocal outfield player should be wearing the armband. I know I’m not alone on that front. We are solely lacking leadership on the pitch at times and although no player should need the armband to be vocal, it does seem to have a mental effect on players - Kane taking the England captaincy is a good example of this I feel.

I don’t think there’s a future where Hugo is at this club and isn’t captain when he plays - so I’d like to see Gazza given the starting slot, partly to free up the armband for Jan or Kane, but also because I think Gazza is a better all round keeper than Hugo. His shot stopping is pretty much on par, he’s a bigger man so dominates his box more effectively, he’s certainly no more error prone (far less in fact, IMO) and his distribution is fantastic.

 

[Dier Hard]

Not been at his best the last couple years and been one of the weakest regulars in the side during that period. Produced a few moments of brilliance in some recent games though. Wouldn’t be against seeing Gazza given the number one shirt next season. Hugo ain’t getting any younger and like it or not, more or less everyone is constantly fearing another **** up is just around the corner.

As for that CIES site, it had Jorginho as one of the best midfielders in Europe not so long ago (not sure if it still says similar), so ermm... yeah, I’ll leave that there.

 

[PowerSpurs]

I agree with a lot of this CK but I think the other factor to consider is whether Hugo’s captaincy is holding us back.

I think he’s barely an adequate captain and that a more vocal outfield player should be wearing the armband. I know I’m not alone on that front. We are solely lacking leadership on the pitch at times and although no player should need the armband to be vocal, it does seem to have a mental effect on players - Kane taking the England captaincy is a good example of this I feel.

I don’t think there’s a future where Hugo is at this club and isn’t captain when he plays - so I’d like to see Gazza given the starting slot, partly to free up the armband for Jan or Kane, but also because I think Gazza is a better all round keeper than Hugo. His shot stopping is pretty much on par, he’s a bigger man so dominates his box more effectively, he’s certainly no more error prone (far less in fact, IMO) and his distribution is fantastic.

What makes you think we are lacking Leadership on the pitch when with Hugo as Captain we've had our best ever run of PL finishes?
And why do you think Gazza is a better goalkeeper? He's only played a few times and there is not enough data to judge and it would be quite surprising if we had one of the proven top 5 goalies in the world in our squad plus someone even better than that.
Not getting at you personally because it may just be your opinion and that's fine.

 

[PowerSpurs]

Not been at his best the last couple years and been one of the weakest regulars in the side during that period. Produced a few moments of brilliance in some recent games though. Wouldn’t be against seeing Gazza given the number one shirt next season. Hugo ain’t getting any younger and like it or not, more or less everyone is constantly fearing another **** up is just around the corner.

As for that CIES site, it had Jorginho as one of the best midfielders in Europe not so long ago (not sure if it still says similar), so ermm... yeah, I’ll leave that there.

It's very unlikely that an attempt at objective player rankings will be close to 100% accurate, never mind agree with individual opinions. But the CIES site has a valuation algorithm too and it has been quite good at predicting transfer values as far as I can tell. When Chelsea went on that long unbeaten run st the beginning of the season it was held that Jorginho was a major factor on most reports I read, indeed when we beat them most reports attributed that to our tactic of marking him. He hasn't looked much good when I've watched him to be fair.
But I'm sure that all big clubs rely more on information like this when assessing players rather than the old fashioned subjective opinions.

 

[Citizen Kane.]

I agree with a lot of this CK but I think the other factor to consider is whether Hugo’s captaincy is holding us back.

I think he’s barely an adequate captain and that a more vocal outfield player should be wearing the armband. I know I’m not alone on that front. We are solely lacking leadership on the pitch at times and although no player should need the armband to be vocal, it does seem to have a mental effect on players - Kane taking the England captaincy is a good example of this I feel.

I don’t think there’s a future where Hugo is at this club and isn’t captain when he plays - so I’d like to see Gazza given the starting slot, partly to free up the armband for Jan or Kane, but also because I think Gazza is a better all round keeper than Hugo. His shot stopping is pretty much on par, he’s a bigger man so dominates his box more effectively, he’s certainly no more error prone (far less in fact, IMO) and his distribution is fantastic.

I don't think Gazza is ready to be #1...yet. Next season could well be the year that he stakes a proper claim for that role. As PS rightly says, we haven't seen nearly enough of him to make that judgement just yet.

I love Jan and he is my favourite player but he isn't captain material. No one is to be frank. Maybe Kane but he isn't particularly vocal and rarely berates team mates who make errors. That's what annoys me about Hugo. He should be giving Trippier the hairdryer treatment after every blunder but instead he just stands there, hands on hips, shaking his head as he mutters in French.

 

[The Huddlefro]

What makes you think we are lacking Leadership on the pitch when with Hugo as Captain we've had our best ever run of PL finishes?
And why do you think Gazza is a better goalkeeper? He's only played a few times and there is not enough data to judge and it would be quite surprising if we had one of the proven top 5 goalies in the world in our squad plus someone even better than that.
Not getting at you personally because it may just be your opinion and that's fine.

Guess it’s just my opinion. Lacking leadership is down to more than just Hugo but we do seem to lose it when heads go down. We lack a big character in the dressing room to pull people out, it has been discussed before on other threads that maybe this group is too nice and we need a proper bastard ‘Roy Keane’ type to dig people out every now and again.

Similarly I think Gazza is a better all round option than Hugo. Hugo is perhaps a slightly better shot stopper but he’s become more error prone the last two years, has never sorted his issues at the near post, and his distribution remains awful.

 

[PleaseNotPoll]

Guess it’s just my opinion. Lacking leadership is down to more than just Hugo but we do seem to lose it when heads go down. We lack a big character in the dressing room to pull people out, it has been discussed before on other threads that maybe this group is too nice and we need a proper bastard ‘Roy Keane’ type to dig people out every now and again.

Similarly I think Gazza is a better all round option than Hugo. Hugo is perhaps a slightly better shot stopper but he’s become more error prone the last two years, has never sorted his issues at the near post, and his distribution remains awful.

His distribution is poor, but I've lost track of the number of keepers who seem to hoof it into the Wembley stands.
I don't know if it's something to do with the ground itself. Lots of people do a Hugo there, though.

 

[deedub93]

I don't think Gazza is ready to be #1...yet. Next season could well be the year that he stakes a proper claim for that role. As PS rightly says, we haven't seen nearly enough of him to make that judgement just yet.

I love Jan and he is my favourite player but he isn't captain material. No one is to be frank. Maybe Kane but he isn't particularly vocal and rarely berates team mates who make errors. That's what annoys me about Hugo. He should be giving Trippier the hairdryer treatment after every blunder but instead he just stands there, hands on hips, shaking his head as he mutters in French.

I guess 'whore of a brothel of sh!t' doesn't have quite the same meaning in English.

 

[Dier Hard]

This thread is just a few days old and it already hasn't aged well

 

[PleaseNotPoll]

This thread is just a few days old and it already hasn't aged well

Liverpool had two shots on target today. I don't think that any keeper can be happy with conceding twice in those circumstances.

 

[BobbyD]

This thread is just a few days old and it already hasn't aged well

No surprise, Powerspurs loves CIES because it has "stats". This is still the same website that has David Luiz as the best defender between spurs and chelsea defenders and has winks followed by jorginho as the best midfielders from either club

 

[Dier Hard]

No surprise, Powerspurs loves CIES because it has "stats". This is still the same website that has David Luiz as the best defender between spurs and chelsea defenders and has winks followed by jorginho as the best midfielders from either club

Whilst I'm sure the site has certain benefits dependent on what you're after, it's got a **** ton of flaws as evidenced by the likes of Hugo, Winks and Luiz being ranked so high.

Give me some good old fashioned scouting any day of the week than a site which claims to have an algorithm that determines if a player is good or not.

 

[The RDBD]

No surprise, Powerspurs loves CIES because it has "stats". This is still the same website that has David Luiz as the best defender between spurs and chelsea defenders and has winks followed by jorginho as the best midfielders from either club

No doubt this is true (for some given statistical measure(s) ) .
Whether those measures are what we in the data analytics trade
call "actionable data" , is another story ...

 

[PleaseNotPoll]

No doubt this is true (for some given statistical measure(s) ) .
Whether those measures are what we in the data analytics trade
call "actionable data" , is another story ...

Football has too many variables to apply the Moneyball system to it, in my opinion.
Players can influence a game simply by standing in the right place. How do you account for that statistically?
Comolli seemed to use it to pick out some talented players, so maybe it has some merit.
Might make a reasonable starting place for some actual scouting.

 

[The RDBD]

Football has too many variables to apply the Moneyball system to it, in my opinion.
Players can influence a game simply by standing in the right place. How do you account for that statistically?
Comolli seemed to use it to pick out some talented players, so maybe it has some merit.
Might make a reasonable starting place for some actual scouting.

I would love to get into the "data sciences" personnel of football clubs
and see what it is they are actually measuring, and why.

If anything like the telecoms sector of a decade go, then you probably
have a "never mind the quality, feel the thickness" analytics reporting regime.

 

[humanbeingincroydon]

I would love to get into the "data sciences" personnel of football clubs
and see what it is they are actually measuring, and why.

If anything like the telecoms sector of a decade go, then you probably
have a "never mind the quality, feel the thickness" analytics reporting regime.

IIRC didn't Spurcat suggest that Paul Mitchell's scouting portfolio mainly consisted of logging into Steam every morning so he could boot up Football Manager and suggest who we should be looking at?

 

[BobbyD]

No doubt this is true (for some given statistical measure(s) ) .
Whether those measures are what we in the data analytics trade
call "actionable data" , is another story ...

Correct. I'm just calling out CIES "performance rankings" which powerspurs thinks is relevant and applicable when you have such stupid rankings which would put Winks, Jorginho, Son and then Luiz as the best players from both clubs

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[Dier Hard]

IIRC didn't Spurcat suggest that Paul Mitchell's scouting portfolio mainly consisted of logging into Steam every morning so he could boot up Football Manager and suggest who we should be looking at?

That worked for Sven when he signed Elano for City...