Off Topic UK / EU Future

  • Please bear with us on the new site integration and fixing any known bugs over the coming days. If you can not log in please try resetting your password and check your spam box. If you have tried these steps and are still struggling email [email protected] with your username/registered email address
  • Log in now to remove adverts - no adverts at all to registered members!
Status
Not open for further replies.
superhorns said:
You need to learn that sometimes in debates there are views which may not mirror your own. Rather than being catty try to offer an alternative view without being offensive.
Click to expand...
Ironically.. I have not been doing anything other than pass on views about the parlous situation this country is in..

Sent from my F8331 using Tapatalk
 
  • Like
Reactions: Deleted.......
I am sure she will do her best to hang on. It is not in her nature to do otherwise. She has led the country to this situation by wanting to have her Brexit, and has ignored all other suggestions. There was never an attempt to discover what sort of Brexit could have passed through Westminster, just her decisions, which have proven to be woeful. Under all normal circumstances she would be forced out by the party, but with such a divided cabinet they may sit there and wonder who would finish up replacing her. One commentary I read suggested that with the exception of Grayling they all thought they should get the job.
It is far too late now due to her running down the clock to think about different deals, so you might try for an extension to sort the chaos out, but it is no means certain that she can put forward a credible plan that would allow one.
As all the polls suggest that it is no longer the wish of the public to leave the EU, the only sensible thing is to send the letter, rescind article 50, then try and reset UK politics which have been broken beyond belief.
 
I must admit that I am following this with bemused interest. However, one thing puzzles me. As I understand it there will be a vote tomorrow which is likely to stop a no deal Brexit. Presumably, if that happens the UK will have to ask for an extension for the date for Brexit. If one EU state says no then the extension will not be given and there will be no deal. Parliament will have said that the UK can't leave without a deal but the UK will be leaving without a deal. The decisions of Parliament will contradict themselves. Which vote will have precedence?
 
NZHorn said:
I must admit that I am following this with bemused interest. However, one thing puzzles me. As I understand it there will be a vote tomorrow which is likely to stop a no deal Brexit. Presumably, if that happens the UK will have to ask for an extension for the date for Brexit. If one EU state says no then the extension will not be given and there will be no deal. Parliament will have said that the UK can't leave without a deal but the UK will be leaving without a deal. The decisions of Parliament will contradict themselves. Which vote will have precedence?
Click to expand...

Because the date of withdrawal has be written into law, that would take precedence. However it would be quite simple to lay a SI to enable an extension. The EU have stated that an extension could be granted, but only if a clear way forward could be seen. With parliament unlikely to have a common view of how to present this, no one apart from a number on the Tory right wing wanting to leave without a deal, it seems to me that deadlock still exists.
 
oldfrenchhorn said:
Because the date of withdrawal has be written into law, that would take precedence. However it would be quite simple to lay a SI to enable an extension. The EU have stated that an extension could be granted, but only if a clear way forward could be seen. With parliament unlikely to have a common view of how to present this, no one apart from a number on the Tory right wing wanting to leave without a deal, it seems to me that deadlock still exists.
Click to expand...
The EU have made it clear that an extension would only be granted if there was a real sign of a change of direction - they don't want several months more of the same deadlock. It is well known that they would readily give an extension in the event of either an impending general election, or a second referendum. So it is clear that, logically, a Commons vote to prevent a no deal, and a subsequent request for an extension means either a general election or a second referendum, possibly both. Having said that, there is no guarantee that either of those things would alleviate the problem - a general election could well leave us with a constellation which is little different from what we have now. A second referendum would be divisive - but nothing like as divisive as taking us out of the EU against the wishes of the people. But we all know that referendums can produce unpredictable results and a 52%-48% win for remain would solve nothing, and would hardly reassure other Europeans of our long term commitment - such a result would have to be decisive before it can bring this sorry chapter of our history to a close.
 
colognehornet said:
The EU have made it clear that an extension would only be granted if there was a real sign of a change of direction - they don't want several months more of the same deadlock. It is well known that they would readily give an extension in the event of either an impending general election, or a second referendum. So it is clear that, logically, a Commons vote to prevent a no deal, and a subsequent request for an extension means either a general election or a second referendum, possibly both. Having said that, there is no guarantee that either of those things would alleviate the problem - a general election could well leave us with a constellation which is little different from what we have now. A second referendum would be divisive - but nothing like as divisive as taking us out of the EU against the wishes of the people. But we all know that referendums can produce unpredictable results and a 52%-48% win for remain would solve nothing, and would hardly reassure other Europeans of our long term commitment - such a result would have to be decisive before it can bring this sorry chapter of our history to a close.
Click to expand...

I agree totally with your assessment, which is why I still believe that to cancel Brexit is the only way forward now.
 
  • Like
Reactions: yorkshirehornet
Incidentally a labour shadow minister has just been on radio four spelling out a much more middle of the road approach to Brexit that I think most MPs of all persuasion would vote for..

When you think that TM did not even want to consult with parliament originally.. And did not even consider a cross party approach.. To the most important decision in a generation.. It is so sad that party politics has driven this..

Stark reading in the Times too this morning.. Britain in Crisis etc etc

Sent from my F8331 using Tapatalk
 
oldfrenchhorn said:
Because the date of withdrawal has be written into law, that would take precedence. However it would be quite simple to lay a SI to enable an extension. The EU have stated that an extension could be granted, but only if a clear way forward could be seen. With parliament unlikely to have a common view of how to present this, no one apart from a number on the Tory right wing wanting to leave without a deal, it seems to me that deadlock still exists.
Click to expand...

Leaving without a deal remains the legal default position. It is the best option to ensure the will of the people as express in the official referendum is respected. The public support leaving without a deal rather than May's dodgy deal.
 
oldfrenchhorn said:
I agree totally with your assessment, which is why I still believe that to cancel Brexit is the only way forward now.
Click to expand...

Cancelling Brexit is a bad idea, it will cause a dramatic loss of faith in politicians. It could also lead to massive violent street protests as is the norm in France at the moment.
 
superhorns said:
Cancelling Brexit is a bad idea, it will cause a dramatic loss of faith in politicians. It could also lead to massive violent street protests as is the norm in France at the moment.
Click to expand...
Is the threat of 'massive violent street protests' then the driver of political decision making in the UK ? Isn't this a little like bowing to terrorism ?
 
superhorns said:
Leaving without a deal remains the legal default position. It is the best option to ensure the will of the people as express in the official referendum is respected. The public support leaving without a deal rather than May's dodgy deal.
Click to expand...
This is a minority view in Parliament. Also is any business leader saying this? Already big corporations are moving their businesses. Most politicians think this could be ruinous for the economy.


Sent from my F8331 using Tapatalk
 
superhorns said:
Cancelling Brexit is a bad idea, it will cause a dramatic loss of faith in politicians. It could also lead to massive violent street protests as is the norm in France at the moment.
Click to expand...
Your comments are like a stuck record. Same old allusion to France etc.

We have to do what is considered best for the country.. And for all elements of our society...

Sent from my F8331 using Tapatalk
 
I am not sure that our politicians have any respect left after this chaos. With business leaders saying that the government is proposing taking a sledgehammer to the economy, if anyone is listening they will want to call the whole thing off.
 
  • Like
Reactions: yorkshirehornet
Tory minister just said we have to find compromise.. 8 different positions in Parliament.. We have to find compromise...
There is no place for views on the margin now.
Therefore those advocating a no deal need to find a way to compromise as there is no chance of a no deal outcome...

Sent from my F8331 using Tapatalk
 
superhorns said:
Cancelling Brexit is a bad idea, it will cause a dramatic loss of faith in politicians. It could also lead to massive violent street protests as is the norm in France at the moment.
Click to expand...

That's a very poor view you have about your fellow leave voters. Surely they'd have more self control and respect for society than that? These things happen. The Tory manifesto said that the ban on fox hinting would be removed - it hasn't and won't be but I'm not aware of mass riots across rural England <whistle>
 
Status
Not open for further replies.
Top Bottom
Back