Off Topic UK / EU Future

Ironically.. I have not been doing anything other than pass on views about the parlous situation this country is in..

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.. The views from within the 1922...

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A number of Tory MPs are suggesting that TM has to go.. Whilst others say she will hang on to complete the job she promised..
Views?

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I am sure she will do her best to hang on. It is not in her nature to do otherwise. She has led the country to this situation by wanting to have her Brexit, and has ignored all other suggestions. There was never an attempt to discover what sort of Brexit could have passed through Westminster, just her decisions, which have proven to be woeful. Under all normal circumstances she would be forced out by the party, but with such a divided cabinet they may sit there and wonder who would finish up replacing her. One commentary I read suggested that with the exception of Grayling they all thought they should get the job.
It is far too late now due to her running down the clock to think about different deals, so you might try for an extension to sort the chaos out, but it is no means certain that she can put forward a credible plan that would allow one.
As all the polls suggest that it is no longer the wish of the public to leave the EU, the only sensible thing is to send the letter, rescind article 50, then try and reset UK politics which have been broken beyond belief.

 

I must admit that I am following this with bemused interest. However, one thing puzzles me. As I understand it there will be a vote tomorrow which is likely to stop a no deal Brexit. Presumably, if that happens the UK will have to ask for an extension for the date for Brexit. If one EU state says no then the extension will not be given and there will be no deal. Parliament will have said that the UK can't leave without a deal but the UK will be leaving without a deal. The decisions of Parliament will contradict themselves. Which vote will have precedence?

 

Because the date of withdrawal has be written into law, that would take precedence. However it would be quite simple to lay a SI to enable an extension. The EU have stated that an extension could be granted, but only if a clear way forward could be seen. With parliament unlikely to have a common view of how to present this, no one apart from a number on the Tory right wing wanting to leave without a deal, it seems to me that deadlock still exists.

 

Best interests of the EU to allow an extension too.
IMO we need to move to GE at some point soon as this parliament is gridlocked and broken

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The EU have made it clear that an extension would only be granted if there was a real sign of a change of direction - they don't want several months more of the same deadlock. It is well known that they would readily give an extension in the event of either an impending general election, or a second referendum. So it is clear that, logically, a Commons vote to prevent a no deal, and a subsequent request for an extension means either a general election or a second referendum, possibly both. Having said that, there is no guarantee that either of those things would alleviate the problem - a general election could well leave us with a constellation which is little different from what we have now. A second referendum would be divisive - but nothing like as divisive as taking us out of the EU against the wishes of the people. But we all know that referendums can produce unpredictable results and a 52%-48% win for remain would solve nothing, and would hardly reassure other Europeans of our long term commitment - such a result would have to be decisive before it can bring this sorry chapter of our history to a close.

 

I agree totally with your assessment, which is why I still believe that to cancel Brexit is the only way forward now.

 

Incidentally a labour shadow minister has just been on radio four spelling out a much more middle of the road approach to Brexit that I think most MPs of all persuasion would vote for..

When you think that TM did not even want to consult with parliament originally.. And did not even consider a cross party approach.. To the most important decision in a generation.. It is so sad that party politics has driven this..

Stark reading in the Times too this morning.. Britain in Crisis etc etc

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Leaving without a deal remains the legal default position. It is the best option to ensure the will of the people as express in the official referendum is respected. The public support leaving without a deal rather than May's dodgy deal.

 

Cancelling Brexit is a bad idea, it will cause a dramatic loss of faith in politicians. It could also lead to massive violent street protests as is the norm in France at the moment.

 

Is the threat of 'massive violent street protests' then the driver of political decision making in the UK ? Isn't this a little like bowing to terrorism ?

 

This is a minority view in Parliament. Also is any business leader saying this? Already big corporations are moving their businesses. Most politicians think this could be ruinous for the economy.


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Your comments are like a stuck record. Same old allusion to France etc.

We have to do what is considered best for the country.. And for all elements of our society...

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CBI have just announced disastrous impact on the economy with a no deal..

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I am not sure that our politicians have any respect left after this chaos. With business leaders saying that the government is proposing taking a sledgehammer to the economy, if anyone is listening they will want to call the whole thing off.

 

Tory minister just said we have to find compromise.. 8 different positions in Parliament.. We have to find compromise...
There is no place for views on the margin now.
Therefore those advocating a no deal need to find a way to compromise as there is no chance of a no deal outcome...

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That's a very poor view you have about your fellow leave voters. Surely they'd have more self control and respect for society than that? These things happen. The Tory manifesto said that the ban on fox hinting would be removed - it hasn't and won't be but I'm not aware of mass riots across rural England

 

Try to debate without personal insults, you must try harder.