Off Topic Politics Thread

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ImpSaint said:
What makes you think we have been told the "important details" since?
We have been told the EU would bargain hard. We already knew that.
We have been told that mega business doesn't want X and Y. We already knew that.
We have been told of recessions, job losses, house prices crashing. We already got told that.
We have been told that 80m people viewed leave adverts and from that 800,000 changed their mind to remain.....errrm. by a Professor from Oxford whose own historical research into this would've meant the calculations would actually amount to less than 8,000 even if all of the were remainers and persuaded to change to leave.

Everything that we are now told as fact, is not fact, it is forecasting and predictions............that they forecasted and predicted before anyway. They are just repeating and ramping up what they said before.

the only thing we do know now that we didn't know before is that our government (and all the others that say they respect the referendum) had and have no intention of doing what they said they would do. And that those outside of the government seats want to paint the government's refusal to actually try to deliver as meaning it was impossible.

We know no more now than we did back then other than there are apparently 80m eligible voters in this country. Just that "experts" are still foisting their dire warnings on us that we ignored the first time round and that Lord Adonis' twitter feed makes my posting rate look like snail paced.

And we have a PM that goes into her 1922 committee meeting and starts her address at 6pm with............."Good morning."
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My word, your desire to see complex conspiracies everywhere blinds you to the obvious.

Deriding experts is Gove's tactic and it's a bit boring. Almost every economist, bank and business in the UK predicts disaster but you're not preapred to accept that they might know something you don't. It's like people denying global warming. "it's just forecasts". Well, if it's a lie then why has Rolls Royce started warehousing spare parts, MINI decided to close their factory for a month if there's No Deal and warehousing space running out across the UK. Are they part of your grand conspiracy?

We're hopefully not going to end up with Brexit because people are beginning to realise that they were sold a bundle of lies when they voted for it. It's not a conspiracy, just a realisation that it was all promises of unicorns.

Vin
 
SaintinSerbia said:
oh go on Imps, I'll bite just this once!

half the population didn't want it.

52% of those who voted wanted it. 28% had the sense not to vote because they didn't care / understand it as told to them.

So just over a third of the eligible voted for it. Just over a third of the eligible population voted against it. Just under a third didn't vote.

Now, 2 years later:

those that voted know what it actually means. The age group that voted most to leave is (God bless them) less and there are now 2 years more of those pesky teenagers that don't know their ass from their elbow eligible to vote.

Ignoring the age related considerations, seems pretty obvious the facts might just swing a new vote the other way! (and the 28% that couldn't be assed last time might just have woken up!)

Obviously, this all bollocks because there is some neo liberalist fascist globalist reason why I'm a complete dickhead xx
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There were not just leavers that thought there should be a referendum. That is a bit of a straight line assumption.

Fullfact (survey by Yougov) 2014 62% total in favour of referendum (44%+10%+8%)
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Mail on Sunday 2011 - no idea if Mail readers or independent samples. 66%
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BBC 2008: 87.9%
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Daily Mail (don't know date) 82%
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ImpSaint said:
There were not just leavers that thought there should be a referendum. That is a bit of a straight line assumption.

Fullfact (survey by Yougov) 2014 62% total in favour of referendum (44%+10%+8%)
You must log in or register to see images


Mail on Sunday 2011 - no idea if Mail readers or independent samples. 66%
You must log in or register to see images


BBC 2008: 87.9%
You must log in or register to see images


Daily Mail (don't know date) 82%
You must log in or register to see images
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Onionman said:
My word, your desire to see complex conspiracies everywhere blinds you to the obvious.

Deriding experts is Gove's tactic and it's a bit boring. Almost every economist, bank and business in the UK predicts disaster but you're not preapred to accept that they might know something you don't. It's like people denying global warming. "it's just forecasts". Well, if it's a lie then why has Rolls Royce started warehousing spare parts, MINI decided to close their factory for a month if there's No Deal and warehousing space running out across the UK. Are they part of your grand conspiracy?

We're hopefully not going to end up with Brexit because people are beginning to realise that they were sold a bundle of lies when they voted for it. It's not a conspiracy, just a realisation that it was all promises of unicorns.

Vin
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The Mini one you've spun again. They moved their month shutdown forward. A shutdown they always have. All the others are doing exactly what they should do..........planning for any eventualities. Something the remainers say can't be done. They are being pro-active and making sure that if the world collapses they have the net ready. That does not mean RR or Mini or any of the others are expecting it because that is the consequence. If they expected the forecasts to actually happen they would probably be getting 3x as much again to make sure they had things covered.

Warehousing space running out over the UK? ther has never been as much warehousing space. But if there is a demand then I bet the prices to rent it are being exploited!!! Maybe rich Brexiteers own all the warehousing and are exploiting the market demand on that?
 
SaintinSerbia said:
you've lost it sunshine! my post has nothing to do with who wanted a referendum
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You started your post by assuming that the result of the referendum leave result meant that was who wanted it. My graphs (the first yougov one if you don;t trust the Mail or BBC) show that was not the case. The point was that people say he offered a referendum that most people didn;t want when the Yougov (if you want to ignore the others) shows that most people did want a referendum. So Cameron was offering what most people (and more than 52% of a third) did want.
 
----HistoryRepeating---- said:
Why are you so for it? What have you to gain?
I see five years of instability at a time things look dodgy anyway.
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Again looking at this in terms of financial gain?

Because I don't agree with globalisation because I don't trust it in the slightest. I want companies that utilise the UK to pay taxes in the UK. I want the labour market to be natural and have a real market rate, not the market rates being manipulated to suit the big companies in the name of "freedom."

All very simple stuff. You lot trust globalists. I (my lot) don't. Pretty much as simple as that.

I don't want deficits to actually be money we are paying to people higher up the chain than governments. For governments and supranationals to be trusted to get the best deals and not sign off favourable deals that make money for their mates.

You lot think that = Tories. I think it = post thatcherism (Blairite, Clintonite)
 
ImpSaint said:
Again looking at this in terms of financial gain?

Because I don't agree with globalisation because I don't trust it in the slightest. I want companies that utilise the UK to pay taxes in the UK. I want the labour market to be natural and have a real market rate, not the market rates being manipulated to suit the big companies in the name of "freedom."

All very simple stuff. You lot trust globalists. I (my lot) don't. Pretty much as simple as that.

I don't want deficits to actually be money we are paying to people higher up the chain than governments. For governments and supranationals to be trusted to get the best deals and not sign off favourable deals that make money for their mates.

You lot think that = Tories. I think it = post thatcherism (Blairite, Clintonite)
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This is just living in cloud cuckoo land.

Globalisation will happen regardless, as technology evolves.
Capitalism is to blame, not globalisation.

Which is the very heart of our society. You are blaming the EU for problems that they didn’t create, and in fact who’s original aim was to help resolve.

Brexit is completely insane.
 
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I think it will be about 185 to May and 130ish against (don't know how many other sexpests they have given the whip back to .)
 
ImpSaint said:
You started your post by assuming that the result of the referendum leave result meant that was who wanted it. My graphs (the first yougov one if you don;t trust the Mail or BBC) show that was not the case. The point was that people say he offered a referendum that most people didn;t want when the Yougov (if you want to ignore the others) shows that most people did want a referendum. So Cameron was offering what most people (and more than 52% of a third) did want.
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no no no! I'm just talking about the result of the vote! I said i would only reply once to your bollocks and now I've done it twice!. I hide my head in shame.
 
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----HistoryRepeating---- said:
Your food bill is going up. Along with the utilities & council tax. Shops will close.
Don't matter who we believe in, this deal is tosh.
We are over the barrel, I'm hoping we have enough strength to wriggle free!
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My and your food bill should've been going up over the past decade+ if they were still employing the British workers they shafted.

Utilities:<em>"Thanks to the EU, energy prices in the UK are set to get cheaper, to the tune of about £150 per house per year by 2020."</em>
That is Sam Gyimah in an interview (linked.) Hurrah, so after the past few years of £3-400 being added on..........the EU is going to get the glory for knocking £150 off? Why didn't they just stop them from hiking them in the first place? And how can we trust that they are going to do this? I thought it was our government that was implementing a cap yet this minister seems to say it will be thanks to the EU?
https://thetab.com/2016/04/14/asked-tory-mp-hes-campaigning-remain-eu-86097

Council tax is what £90 a month? Big wows.

Shops will close? And? No-one uses them anymore. And all those remain voters will be dead soon so everybody will be internet savvy and able to buy it off the internet.
 
St Godders said:
We should never have a woman as PM as they cannot have gone to Eton and as everybody knows that is where people who have a divine right to rule are educated.
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You remind me of a conversation I had in a bar in Lille over 30 years ago. Having ascertained that I didn't think much of my country's then PM, the assembled company of grizzled French proletarians nodded sagely, as one of them asserted "Ca marche pas, une femme pour la chef". Subsequent events suggest he may have been right, but a wider reading of history suggests we Brits do like a strong woman in charge - from Boudicea through Elizabeth I to Madame Handbag.
 
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Osvaldorama said:
You are blaming the EU for problems that they didn’t create
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I'm not blaming them for creating it............but they were expanded upon to facilitate it and abuse it.

and in fact who’s original aim was to help resolve.
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It may have been the original vision but those who saw an opening to abuse it with the cover of "lovely global worldy things" took full advantage.

Brexit is completely insane.
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I agree.
 
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