Off Topic UK / EU Future

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oldfrenchhorn said:
That's alright then. If you knew her as I do, then you would know that she makes a virtue out of her total failure to comprehend anything that is going on around her.
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I would rather take notice of the Leader of the House than yourself having consistently got things wrong right throughout the Brexit process.
 
https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-politics-46449498

Interesting article here about the politics of yesterdays voting.......
Is it the precursor to a deal?
Laura K who is closer than money (Ed: oops i meant many!) to the Tory machinations thinks these may point to a clear outcome.... which will also leave hard Brexiteers out in the wilderness
 
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yorkshirehornet said:
https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-politics-46449498

Interesting article here about the politics of yesterdays voting.......
Is it the precursor to a deal?
Laura K who is closer than money to the Tory machinations thinks these may point to a clear outcome.... which will also leave hard Brexiteers out in the wilderness
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That's been my thinking from the start Yorkie. I think there's a sizeable majority in the House that would be so terrified of No Deal that they'll vote for this even if under massive sufferance. Sure the idea of bringing down the government will have massive appeal but they can do that at any time they like - I'm not convinced too many MPs want to be knocking on doors canvassing votes in yet another general election campaign in the middle of the fall out of No Deal. And I'm not sure many potential PMs would want to inherit such a mess either...
 
Dan Starkey 2 said:
That's been my thinking from the start Yorkie. I think there's a sizeable majority in the House that would be so terrified of No Deal that they'll vote for this even if under massive sufferance. Sure the idea of bringing down the government will have massive appeal but they can do that at any time they like - I'm not convinced too many MPs want to be knocking on doors canvassing votes in yet another general election campaign in the middle of the fall out of No Deal. And I'm not sure many potential PMs would want to inherit such a mess either...
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I think they will not want to go to Referendum as that may lead to a Remain vote and a complete discrediting of the Tory Govt..... I would not be at all surprised if we have a version of a soft-Brexit deal ratified by parliament...
 
yorkshirehornet said:
Plus of course the fear that MPs will obstruct a deal in order to Remain

https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-politics-46450227


This is more gripping than a good BBC Drama!
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Actually I think that's part of the problem. Some MPs and a few EU Member State leaders are absolutely loving a rare sojourn into the spotlight and seem to be intent on pushing the dramatics to keep themselves there. It's the ultimate in brinkmanship - and it's bloody dangerous.
 
My take on the arithmetic in parliament is different. Now that the released advice papers reveal the Attorney General warned May the UK could be stuck in the backstop forever it will keep the majority voting the deal down. For anybody, even remainers, this is an unacceptable position to put the UK in.
 
superhorns said:
Hopefully your MP will make the correct decision to ditch it.
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He's Labour so not sure what way he'll vote. But rest assured if he votes against and it plunges us into no deal territory he won't be welcome at my doorstep come the inevitable election that will follow.
 
Dan Starkey 2 said:
He's Labour so not sure what way he'll vote. But rest assured if he votes against and it plunges us into no deal territory he won't be welcome at my doorstep come the inevitable election that will follow.
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Pretty certain he will vote against, you should slam your door in his face. :emoticon-0136-giggl
 
superhorns said:
It appears the Leader of the House agrees with me.

No deal Brexit is "default" position if May loses vote
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Leadsom has even less credibility than you mate.

Her view on what happens when Mays deal gets bombed out is merely the party line. What’s she’s glossed over is yesterdays Grieve amendment. Parliament will never sanction us sleep walking into no deal, despite all of the bluster, it’d be political suicide for the Tories to boot.
 
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Tobes said:
Leadsom has even less credibility than you mate.

Her view on what happens when Mays deal gets bombed out is merely the party line. What’s she’s glossed over is yesterdays Grieve amendment. Parliament will never sanction us sleep walking into no deal, despite all of the bluster, it’d be political suicide for the Tories to boot.
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Leadsom is simply stating the facts. The amendments have no legal standing. Even if the government is ordered to go back to negotiate with the EU they will not agree to a withdrawal agreement without the backstop as it is. What would be political suicide is not to carry out the will of the people as decided in the 2016 referendum.
 
superhorns said:
Leadsom is simply stating the facts. The amendments have no legal standing. Even if the government is ordered to go back to negotiate with the EU they will not agree to a withdrawal agreement without the backstop as it is. What would be political suicide is not to carry out the will of the people as decided in the 2016 referendum.
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Not even this lot are stupid enough to lead the country into a no deal Brexit, and despite the rewrite of history the Brexiteers have attempted of late, literally no one said leaving on a no deal basis was an acceptable outcome. The official Leave campaign said we’d only leave in an orderly manner once a deal had been agreed.

It’d be an absolute car crash, not only the months of chaos as we fell out of hundreds of regulatory agreements that cover virtually every aspect of daily life, the massive disruption to supply chains and thus both retail supply and manufacturing, but the fallout from tariff imposition that’d lead directly to the decimation of our largely foreign owned manufacturing base. It’d be the biggest act of intentional nation self harm in history. The Tories would take the blame and they’d be ****ed for a generation once the full impact became clear.

As for the backstop. The same people who are bleating about it, are literally the same ones who said the border issue was simple to solve with technology, all they have to do now is prove it, then the backstop becomes a moot point, as it’ll never be enacted.
 
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Tobes said:
Not even this lot are stupid enough to lead the country into a no deal Brexit, and despite the rewrite of history the Brexiteers have attempted of late, literally no one said leaving on a no deal basis was an acceptable outcome. The official Leave campaign said we’d only leave in an orderly manner once a deal had been agreed.

It’d be an absolute car crash, not only the months of chaos as we fell out of hundreds of regulatory agreements that cover virtually every aspect of daily life, the massive disruption to supply chains and thus both retail supply and manufacturing, but the fallout from tariff imposition that’d lead directly to the decimation of our largely foreign owned manufacturing base. It’d be the biggest act of intentional nation self harm in history. The Tories would take the blame and they’d be ****ed for a generation once the full impact became clear.

As for the backstop. The same people who are bleating about it, are literally the same ones who said the border issue was simple to solve with technology, all they have to do now is prove it, then the backstop becomes a moot point, as it’ll never be enacted.
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Technology could solve the Irish border issues given a chance. It would have been preferential to have reached the no deal scenario to have given more time to plan but that is no excuse to sign up to a really poor deal clearly created by remainers with collusion from an even more remainer civil service.

Tariffs can be small and insignificant compared to currency fluctuations, most of the UK's trade is under WTO rules and works perfectly well. Of course some in the EU will set out to cause maximum inconvenience until they buckle from home markets equally affected. Some are quite happy to be subservient to foreign powers but I'm not.
 
superhorns said:
Technology could solve the Irish border issues given a chance. It would have been preferential to have reached the no deal scenario to have given more time to plan but that is no excuse to sign up to a really poor deal clearly created by remainers with collusion from an even more remainer civil service.

Tariffs can be small and insignificant compared to currency fluctuations, most of the UK's trade is under WTO rules and works perfectly well. Of course some in the EU will set out to cause maximum inconvenience until they buckle from home markets equally affected. Some are quite happy to be subservient to foreign powers but I'm not.
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Always this swollen language ''Subservient to foreign powers' <doh> We have had a part in the shaping of the EU. or had you forgotten that ? In fact 95% of all EU. laws were voted for by the British - this is a higher percentage than for any other EU state. There is no country which has had more concessions than Britain has had. The EU. is not a ''Foreign Power'' - we are a part of it. The joke is that you so often imply that Britain (a country as important as France or Germany) is, somehow not able to exert itself within the EU as an equal partner, like a 6 stone weakling always having sand kicked in its face - yet is, somehow, a dynamic nation able to protect it's sovereignty in a big bad wider World against the likes of the USA or China.
 
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