Off Topic The Politics Thread

[ELLERS]

Yes, I think both Carney and Osborne admitted to getting it wrong by overestimating the negative effects of a Leave vote. But that was based on likely market sentiment about the prospect of leaving. Now we're talking about the real thing - actually leaving and the real consequences of how we go about it.

So all experts are wrong nearly all of the time? It makes one wonder how they got to be experts.​

How can you now believe ‘carnage’? They continually get things wrong. It’s like watching the SS fanatics last stand in Berlin.

 

[Quite Possibly Raving]

People seem to conveniently forget that the vote to leave did have an actual negative impact - the pound tumbled and we went from being the fastest growing economy in the G7 to the slowest. There are huge numbers of examples of companies choosing to move jobs abroad too.

Hardly like remain have a monopoly on being wrong too. Anyone remember being told how easy it would be to get a deal done?

 

[Quite Possibly Raving]

How can you now believe ‘carnage’? They continually get things wrong. It’s like watching the SS fanatics last stand in Berlin.

Godwin's law again Ellers!!

 

[ELLERS]

People seem to conveniently forget that the vote to leave did have an actual negative impact - the pound tumbled and we went from being the fastest growing economy in the G7 to the slowest. There are huge numbers of examples of companies choosing to move jobs abroad too.

Hardly like remain have a monopoly on being wrong too. Anyone remember being told how easy it would be to get a deal done?

Funny you mention companies leaving from city... only 5 days ago the news said that actually the city had taken on more staff and that they couldn’t name a major company that has moved. They went on to say that, yes they have opened up offices in the EU and put a few staff in but they main offices were all in UK.
Funnily we were told all companies would leave for Frankfurt and Paris. This has not happened.

 

[Stroller]

Ps I thought it was only Willy who was fixated by Trump

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[Staines R's]

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So it’s not just Willy

Ps I also think Trump is a **** but I’m not obsessed like some

 

[Stroller]

Not sensitive......just thick and racist

Unlike you snowflakes

I thought snowflake was a term used to describe people who take offence too easily. That'd be you lot then, surely?

 

[rangercol]

People seem to conveniently forget that the vote to leave did have an actual negative impact - the pound tumbled and we went from being the fastest growing economy in the G7 to the slowest. There are huge numbers of examples of companies choosing to move jobs abroad too.

Hardly like remain have a monopoly on being wrong too. Anyone remember being told how easy it would be to get a deal done?

I think what many remainers fail to realise is that an awful lot of people didn't vote leave for economic reasons. Like myself, many voted on a principle concerning sovereignty. It was a political vote.

 

[DT’s Socks]

Be good to at least have some economic predictions or even solutions from a Brexiteer

Their entire stance on here is

Dismiss everything anyone is saying re any potential pitfall

Offer nothing in the of a plan going forward after Brexit

Moan about everything

You got it wrong ... very wrong

 

[rangercol]

We got it right, very right.
The ruling elite have ****ed it up and lied and betrayed.
Anyway, I sense a bout of going around in circles again!
Back to watching the champions league.

 

[DT’s Socks]

I think what many remainers fail to realise is that an awful lot of people didn't vote leave for economic reasons. Like myself, many voted on a principal concerning sovereignty. It was a political vote.

I agree a lot of people did see sovereignty as a main reason unfortunately imo these people hadn’t noticed that we sold out a long time ago

I sympathise with this 100%
To claim back a principle is honourable but we are not Germany and a rebuild is out of the question

Why? We are divided plus most sold out individually a long time ago

I state again generally you couldn’t get a cul de sac to put on a boot sale without argument and division. I maintain the culture is shot to ****e

 

[Staines R's]

I thought snowflake was a term used to describe people who take offence too easily. That'd be you lot then, surely?

I’m offended by that remark

 

[Quite Possibly Raving]

I think what many remainers fail to realise is that an awful lot of people didn't vote leave for economic reasons. Like myself, many voted on a principle concerning sovereignty. It was a political vote.

You are absolutely correct on this point - the available research indicates that most leavers voted based on two reasons, immigration and sovereignty.

My post was simply in response to those claiming experts (including Osborne and Carney) were all wrong, and that there was no negative economic impact post-vote. There was. And likely will be further once we actually leave.

Whether people actually care (at least while it's still theory) is an entirely separate, but good, question.

 

[Quite Possibly Raving]

Funny you mention companies leaving from city... only 5 days ago the news said that actually the city had taken on more staff and that they couldn’t name a major company that has moved. They went on to say that, yes they have opened up offices in the EU and put a few staff in but they main offices were all in UK.
Funnily we were told all companies would leave for Frankfurt and Paris. This has not happened.

Hi Ellers - took me about five minutes of research to come up with the following list:

• HSBC moved 1,000 jobs from London Paris
• Lloyd's of London moved 100 jobs from London to Brussels and the EU HQ from London to Dublin
• Barclays moved 150 jobs from London to Dublin, also moving EU HQ
• Bank of America moving HQ from London to Dublin
• UBS moving unspecified number "under 1,000" from London to EU offices
• EMA - 890 jobs, moving from London to Amsterdam
• European Banking Authority - 180 jobs - London to Paris
• Unilever - Announced new joint HQ in Amsterdam

Most of this comes from the Press Association.

You can dismiss this as a "few staff" if you like, but these are very well paid jobs, that would have been contributing a lot to HMT. Further, this is all happening before we actually leave. I also suspect that just like my own company, many others will have moved jobs out of the UK but tried to keep it from reaching the press under pressure to try and stay neutral in the debate.

To deny that this is having any sort of economic impact I think is a bit of a stretch. I think Col raises the more interesting (and to my mind appropriate) question however, as to whether those that voted to leave will actually care about this impact, or if it's seen as a price worth paying for regaining sovereignty. I guess time will tell!

 

[Staines R's]

You are absolutely correct on this point - the available research indicates that most leavers voted based on two reasons, immigration and sovereignty.

My post was simply in response to those claiming experts (including Osborne and Carney) were all wrong, and that there was no negative economic impact post-vote. There was. And likely will be further once we actually leave.

Whether people actually care (at least while it's still theory) is an entirely separate, but good, question.

Errrrr.....haven’t we already agreed to the fact that Osborne and Carney we’re wrong in their earlier predictions ?

 

[ELLERS]

Hi Ellers - took me about five minutes of research to come up with the following list:

• HSBC moved 1,000 jobs from London Paris
• Lloyd's of London moved 100 jobs from London to Brussels and the EU HQ from London to Dublin
• Barclays moved 150 jobs from London to Dublin, also moving EU HQ
• Bank of America moving HQ from London to Dublin
• UBS moving unspecified number "under 1,000" from London to EU offices
• EMA - 890 jobs, moving from London to Amsterdam
• European Banking Authority - 180 jobs - London to Paris
• Unilever - Announced new joint HQ in Amsterdam

Most of this comes from the Press Association.

You can dismiss this as a "few staff" if you like, but these are very well paid jobs, that would have been contributing a lot to HMT. Further, this is all happening before we actually leave. I also suspect that just like my own company, many others will have moved jobs out of the UK but tried to keep it from reaching the press under pressure to try and stay neutral in the debate.

To deny that this is having any sort of economic impact I think is a bit of a stretch. I think Col raises the more interesting (and to my mind appropriate) question however, as to whether those that voted to leave will actually care about this impact, or if it's seen as a price worth paying for regaining sovereignty. I guess time will tell!

So basically you are agreeing with what I said. No major company has got up and moved lock stock. Companies move staff around all the time. I bet if you went back 5 years ago you may come up with the same information. Companies will adapt to circumstances and most have but the threat of loads of companies going (funnily a couple on here said the same) was wrong. I notice that no one mentions all the new jobs created in the city either.

 

[Quite Possibly Raving]

Errrrr.....haven’t we already agreed to the fact that Osborne and Carney we’re wrong in their earlier predictions ?

No, that's exactly the point I'm arguing against in my earlier posts...they exaggerated, but weren't entirely incorrect. In the same way the leave side exaggerated how easy it would be to leave.

So to dismiss all economic arguments now based on them being wrong seems a little OTT

 

[Quite Possibly Raving]

So basically you are agreeing with what I said. No major company has got up and moved lock stock. Companies move staff around all the time. I bet if you went back 5 years ago you may come up with the same information. Companies will adapt to circumstances and most have but the threat of loads of companies going (funnily a couple on here said the same) was wrong. I notice that no one mentions all the new jobs created in the city either.

Just to be clear, what's your definition of "moved lock stock" if moving an HQ out of the UK doesn't count? You mean move every member of staff out of the country and close up shop?!

 

[rangercol]

You are absolutely correct on this point - the available research indicates that most leavers voted based on two reasons, immigration and sovereignty.

My post was simply in response to those claiming experts (including Osborne and Carney) were all wrong, and that there was no negative economic impact post-vote. There was. And likely will be further once we actually leave.

Whether people actually care (at least while it's still theory) is an entirely separate, but good, question.

I'm sure there may be some economic problems post brexit. Must be inevitable.
However, I refute project fear, trying to claim what might happen years and years ahead.

 

[bobmid]

Pity one of those time travellers that keep popping up can't shed any light on the matter!