Off Topic UK / EU Future

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superhorns said:
What the Tories were elected on was the same stance the PM took during her Mansion House speech, this is also the ERG's clear position.
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It is no longer in the hands of the PM or the ERG. There is no majority for her type of deal, and no majority for a no deal. She has talked herself into a corner and no one should believe her red lines anymore. The only thing that does seem to have majority support outside of Westminster is to put whatever comes out back to the people.
 
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oldfrenchhorn said:
It is no longer in the hands of the PM or the ERG. There is no majority for her type of deal, and no majority for a no deal. She has talked herself into a corner and no one should believe her red lines anymore. The only thing that does seem to have majority support outside of Westminster is to put whatever comes out back to the people.
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The last may also have a majority in Westminster as well Frenchie. Take away party whips and bring in secret voting and they would vote for a second referendum tomorrow. The second problem with another referendum is - would the EU. wait for such an event ? Also many people may see it as a loss of face if we were simply to say 'Sorry we don't want to do it', after wasting 2 and a half years time in the process - and could the EU. accept this with the knowledge that the same thing could happen again in years to come ? Also, a second referendum would leave us with no time to negotiate a new deal if the result went the wrong way.
 
oldfrenchhorn said:
It is no longer in the hands of the PM or the ERG. There is no majority for her type of deal, and no majority for a no deal. She has talked herself into a corner and no one should believe her red lines anymore. The only thing that does seem to have majority support outside of Westminster is to put whatever comes out back to the people.
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Of course the ERG and DUP are extremely influential, when they help to vote down May's faulty deal. This will lead to a no deal situation unless somebody like David Davis takes over the negotiations. It also requires the EU to stop using the Irish border as a bargaining tool.

Parliament officials have already stated the government is not bound by a vote in the house. There will be no second, third or fourth vote on EU membership for years, if at all.
 
The ERG are just a small minority in a minority government. They make noise which some are taken in by, but in reality are outside of the decision making. The daft thing is that only this small group still believes in Brexit. The latest polling shows that in every one of the 67 most vulnerable seats held by the Tories, the majority want a second say. Now you might say that the voters should be listened to more than the cult who are not representing the views of their electorate. Party managers will be well aware that the tide has turned against the whole stupid idea as the public have become aware of the reality of situation. The public can now see what a roaring success it is and want out of this internal Tory fight.
 
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oldfrenchhorn said:
The ERG are just a small minority in a minority government. They make noise which some are taken in by, but in reality are outside of the decision making. The daft thing is that only this small group still believes in Brexit. The latest polling shows that in every one of the 67 most vulnerable seats held by the Tories, the majority want a second say. Now you might say that the voters should be listened to more than the cult who are not representing the views of their electorate. Party managers will be well aware that the tide has turned against the whole stupid idea as the public have become aware of the reality of situation. The public can now see what a roaring success it is and want out of this internal Tory fight.
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You fail to understand the importance of the vote on any proposed deal with the EU. With the opposition of the influential ERG group May's deal will be defeated. There is no mechanism to force the government to have another referendum.
 
colognehornet said:
The last may also have a majority in Westminster as well Frenchie. Take away party whips and bring in secret voting and they would vote for a second referendum tomorrow. The second problem with another referendum is - would the EU. wait for such an event ? Also many people may see it as a loss of face if we were simply to say 'Sorry we don't want to do it', after wasting 2 and a half years time in the process - and could the EU. accept this with the knowledge that the same thing could happen again in years to come ? Also, a second referendum would leave us with no time to negotiate a new deal if the result went the wrong way.
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I would expect so, they don't really want us to leave. Loss of face metaphorical face is a bit embarrassing but miles better than having tens of thousands of people out of work and the patently obvious economic meltdown that everyone except for our tax avoiding newspaper owners are warning us is likely to happen: not content with shooting ourselves in the foot, we're trying to knee-cap ourselves for an encore!
If the maybot had done her job properly as Home Secretary then we would almost certainly not find ourselves in this mess and nazinige would still look like a three year old having a tantrum in the supermarket. The "natural party of government" couldn't be trusted to organise the proverbial p*ss up in a brewery... though they'd doubtless claim expenses for it. What a mess.
And if a second referendum went the wrong way, then so be it! It would be like a dog poo in a bouncy castle but democracy would have been served. Thus far we've been lied to and are without recourse to putting this right. Yeah, but blue passports... made in France. Sacre bleu!
 
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yorkshirehornet said:
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mmm..... a close to home example of Brexit and its complex issues.....

The PL may cease to be a destination choice for many players
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That would make some on here happy, returning to the 'good old days' when players were limited to a bicycle distance from the club. :emoticon-0136-giggl
 
It appears that agreement has been reached in Brussels, something that had to be done if there were to be the slightest chance of presenting it to parliament before Christmas. It is reported that the DUP have not seen the text. That is where the power actually lies as they are propping up the minority government, not with some cult right wing group.
 
November 1990, and Ministers were called into No 10 for one to one meetings with the PM. It didn't have quite the result she was hoping for. We are told that similar meetings are to be held tonight, but this time it will be do Ministers wish to keep their jobs rather than the other way round. We will see how many wish to give up the company car over their right wing principles.
 
oldfrenchhorn said:
November 1990, and Ministers were called into No 10 for one to one meetings with the PM. It didn't have quite the result she was hoping for. We are told that similar meetings are to be held tonight, but this time it will be do Ministers wish to keep their jobs rather than the other way round. We will see how many wish to give up the company car over their right wing principles.
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Hopefully ministers and those in parliament will ensure they do the decent thing and insist on those issues which the victorious 17.5 million voted for are represented in the deal. Failing that the deal should be rejected and a new Tory team, containing proper Brexiteers, put in place.
 
superhorns said:
Hopefully ministers and those in parliament will ensure they do the decent thing and insist on those issues which the victorious 17.5 million voted for are represented in the deal. Failing that the deal should be rejected and a new Tory team, containing proper Brexiteers, put in place.
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It seems as if you have moved from certainty to hope SH. We are no longer talking about something that happened two years ago, but what the real situation is today where there is no majority for leaving. The government has said that this agreement will go through Parliament. I doubt it, but we will see. As someone said tonight, staying in the CU and parts of the SM, why are we leaving for a worse deal than the one we already have?
 
oldfrenchhorn said:
It seems as if you have moved from certainty to hope SH. We are no longer talking about something that happened two years ago, but what the real situation is today where there is no majority for leaving. The government has said that this agreement will go through Parliament. I doubt it, but we will see. As someone said tonight, staying in the CU and parts of the SM, why are we leaving for a worse deal than the one we already have?
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That is why we need the common sense and experience of the ERG group to take control. The 'remainer' negotiators have served us badly so far, time for them to move over.
 
oldfrenchhorn said:
It seems as if you have moved from certainty to hope SH. We are no longer talking about something that happened two years ago, but what the real situation is today where there is no majority for leaving. The government has said that this agreement will go through Parliament. I doubt it, but we will see. As someone said tonight, staying in the CU and parts of the SM, why are we leaving for a worse deal than the one we already have?
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superhorns said:
That is why we need the common sense and experience of the ERG group to take control. The 'remainer' negotiators have served us badly so far, time for them to move over.
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I am not sure what experience these cult figures actually have. Perhaps you can tell us what ministerial positions their leader has actually held.
 
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oldfrenchhorn said:
It seems as if you have moved from certainty to hope SH. We are no longer talking about something that happened two years ago, but what the real situation is today where there is no majority for leaving. The government has said that this agreement will go through Parliament. I doubt it, but we will see. As someone said tonight, staying in the CU and parts of the SM, why are we leaving for a worse deal than the one we already have?
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I'm certain we will reach 'Freedom Day', hopefully we can find some negotiators with backbone to oppose the EU bullies.
 
superhorns said:
I'm certain we will reach 'Freedom Day', hopefully we can find some negotiators with backbone to oppose the EU bullies.
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Think that once again you are living in the past. Seems as if an agreement has already been reached which will keep the country in the CU and parts of the SM. If parliament does not approve it then the likelihood is that the government will fall, and you would no doubt rejoice in getting a genuine Brexiter Corbyn in No.10.
 
oldfrenchhorn said:
I am not sure what experience these cult figures actually have. Perhaps you can tell us what ministerial positions their leader has actually held.
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Ex Brexit minister and his no 2. The ERG group contains many with ministerial experience, research before posting.
 
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