Beddy, when did we enter the EU? Mid 70s? We live in a totally different world and climate now.
Off Topic Politics Thread
- Thread starter ChilcoSaint
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Totally agree....... we are indeed in a totally different world and climate. Things have changed dramatically but not necessarily for the better in a lot of people’s view.
You did vote to leave (see red). And you did take immigration into account (see blue).
Can't quote from so long ago so here's a cut and paste.
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In truth I am of the old school. I do know what it was like before we went in, they said it would be the making of this country.
Sorry I cannot see that it has, the economics bandied about before we joined just hasn't come true not even remotely. The free movement of personnel was as far as I remember not part of the deal. Although I am not against immigration we do need to have more control of it though. I also do not like the idea of people making decisions on our future who have not been elected. I value our sovereignty which to me bit by bit we are losing.
So I voted out.
Beddytare, Jun 23, 2016
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Like a great number of people who voted leave, you now no longer want to admit it rather than look daft in the face of the absolute unmitigated abortion that it's all turning out to be. You're left defending the indefensible by blaming it on the people negotiating rather than the idea that your vote might have been a mistake.
I have a friend who fervently told me that we'd stay in the single market who's now claiming he said all along that no deal was his aim. The cognitive dissonance amongst many (not all) leave voters in the face of the awful dawning reality is stunning.
So, given that you voted leave and you say "the party having to negotiate a leave deal doesn’t seem to have a clue as to what to do", what did you vote for? Not what you voted against. What do you want to happen now?
Vin
1993 same as everybody else that originally joined the EEC
Vin
I’m surprised that I made that statement as I don’t usually do that. I was so surprised I went back to see . I went back to the date you mentioned (June 23rd Page 77 through to page 80.).......all covering that date. I could not find the statement you claim I made?
Don’t you dare to presume to know what I think or how I feel about staying or going at this present time. However I do believe the majority of people in this country voted to leave. I happen to believe in this country. As far as I am concerned we voted to leave and that is what we should do. No I don’t happen to believe T May has a clue what to do. In fairness I’m doubtful any of the polititions really know. The whole consept is new to all and is a nightmare.
We have no choice though to get on with it and make the most of what we have. It is no good moaning about it surely when you voted you had an idea that if the vote to leave won through it would be a nightmare. If you didn’t then I’m surprised.
Time will tell whether we were right or wrong to leave......trust me there will be arguments for and against even in 10 -15 years time. Meanwhile we have just got to get on with it. It will be sorted but going back on the vote is not the way to go.
You are entitled to your view just as I am. The EU is not going to make it easy because if they do others will want to do the same Sweden, Austria, even the Dutch and Belgians have reported they are dissatisfied with things in the EU. They are watching very closely......
Thanks Chilco....... I seem to remember the thread if not the post.
Edit........I have managed to find it thank you.
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Lots is for the better and lots is for the worse. One thing I’m fairly confident off though is that whether we were doing alright or not out of the EU before 1969 has about zero relevance nearly 50 years later, whether you are a remainer or a leaver.
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I'll not mince 'words'. I find both Boris's and Mogg's politics abhorrent. They are both close to fascism. That Boris uses inflammatory metaphors is not at issue, whether they are motivated by the desire to be noticed or just the perversions of the 'creative psychopath', seems a moot point. That is 'arguing about anything except words'.
Mogg, it could be argued, is more considered, more polite. However a man who can make a statement like ''I oppose abortion even in cases of rape', or described political opponents ideas as 'cretinous', seems to me to be another for whom empathy is a dirty word. You are right Imp, they are just words. Words are important, unless we want to embrace the idea that 'the pen is mightier than the sword, but no match for the gun.
What's Mogg got to do with that tweet? The first one is about the Boris outrage and the second one is Corbynites (especially Owen Jones) having a meltdown about Umunna saying "call off the dogs."
The areas who voted strongly to leave were the rural areas with low immigrant statistics while areas that actually had high impact like London voted to stay.
Also for somebody to know what the economy was like back when we joined the EU personally they would have to be around 70. Kids aren't going to know what the economic climate was like. I would also go as far as saying the framework for the EU was created in the aftermath of ww2. Before that we had constant wars in Europe. This is basically the longest run of peace and security we've ever had.
The majority of people in the UK didn't vote to leave.
And finally going back on the vote is definitely the right thing to do
There is a relevance in that we did ok out of the EU up til then, there has been little improvement since we joined in my view. Just unelected people making all sorts of silly rules and regulations not to mention all the other crap (Politics) that has been added. Not all bad true.
Agree it was 50 years ago and agree things are different now that is obvious.
We do not know what the future holds, we do not know if we are going to do better or worse out of the EU.
The difference is I guess is that I have a lot more faith in what this country can achieve on its own than a lot of you guys. I also am prepared to do my bit to achieve that by doing my best to make any agreement (or not) work.
These things always cause issues and disagreements they are bound to.
It is also my view that we should have had a referendum about whether to stay in when they changed things from the original agreement. (Common market).
Personally I think that although we had a voice the politicians of the day could not have seen the direction the EU were taking.
Just my view not all would agree I'm sure............
Of course I did. That's why I voted remain. And I was open and am open about it. And I haven't forgotten what I said at the time, changed my mind or been inconsistent in what I've written on here about what an utter shambles I predicted it would be.
Your comment about the other countries in the EU being dissatisfied shows how much the British don't understand Europe. The other countries, when dissatisfied, work to change things within the structure rather than throwing a strop and threatening to leave. Spoiler: Not every word in the Daily Mail is true.
"We have no choice but to get on with it" sounds like a man in a car who's taken a wrong turning and is heading towards a cliff shouting "accelerate, the decision's been made, we have to stick with it".
Vin
In truth Vin I can't remember them all and even if I did I am not prepared to argue the point about them...........I do remember one that made people in the UK laugh though........Something about the bananas having to be a certain size before EU country would accept them. There were several silly things like this (or they appeared to be silly things to us in the UK) My understanding was we joined a trade agreement with Europe. As I said they then started to add things about EU law etc even over riding our own courts.
It is very unusual for me to tell anyone how I voted Vin. Not because I'm ashamed of how I voted but I try to avoid personal conflicts and disagreements on any Forum.
I'm always prepared to listen and try to debate but it is very difficult to debate with people who are totally blinkered.
I've never been one to try to change the world Vin.............
Beddy, I can’t believe your last line. If anyone is blinkered.....
On your first line, what about remembering two or three and debating them (not arguing then). If they meant that much to you, you’d remember them.