How are you in a position to know what 'The British want' ? Or are you a mind reader for the whole country ? You have still not confronted one of my most important questions - for every one EU. migrant coming to the UK. there are 20 EU. tourists who come, spend their money, and then go. There are whole coastal towns, not to mention London, which are dependent on this revenue. How are you going to control at the point of entry without crippling the tourist industry ?
Off Topic UK / EU Future
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Yes your text was an answer to Frenchie's text - hadn't noticedAre you serious? I was replying to OFH
Have a lie down!!
Have you not noticed the UK voted to regain control of our borders via the referendum.?
Like everybody else tourists will enter the UK through customs and leave through customs. The UK is currently enjoying record numbers of visitors.
You already have control of your borders ! What measures do you envisage (at the point of entry) which are stricter than those existing at the moment ? Currently people are still going to the UK. because Brexit has not happened yet, and they are going now rather than later.
yorkshirehornet
Well-Known Member
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Not noticed the gridlock at Heathrow under current arrangements SH??? Non-EU can take 90 minutes...... not very welcoming.....Now add that on to the ports etc and the 'fun' will start....
Not noticed the gridlock at Heathrow under current arrangements SH??? Non-EU can take 90 minutes...... not very welcoming.....Now add that on to the ports etc and the 'fun' will start....
We are talking about two separate subjects, tourists or migrants that want to settle in the UK. I have no doubt mass tourism to the UK will continue, especially whilst sterling is weak before it recovers after Brexit.
I know the UK has almost full employment but I'm sure they can employ some more customs officers. Hopefully they are all working for my trip to Spain tomorrow for a week. The French air traffic controllers are due soon for their twice a month walk out.
They are not 2 separate subjects SH. At the point of entry you do not know a persons motives for entry. How are you going to make life more difficult for the one group without driving the other away as well ? As if often the case all I hear is the soundbite 'taking back control of our borders' without any concrete explanation of exactly what measures you propose which are over and above what we have now.
If migrants enter pretending to be tourists there is not much that can be done in any system. I think we all agree the UK border force needs to be beefed up to expel overstayers and a better system for determining a person's credentials. It is too easy to live in the UK as an illegal.
yorkshirehornet
Well-Known Member
The only reasons it is too easy to live in the UK. as an illegal (ie. overstaying of visas) is because there is a) no national registration system, and b) because the chances of picking up semi legal, casual work are higher than they would be in other countries. Both of these can be solved using methods which are within the framework of the EU.
Post Brexit, I'm sure the UK government can decide on policies to solve these problems.
The British government have failed to control non EU. migration and illegal overstayers up to the present, why should they have any success when increasing the number of overstayers ? In order to establish that a EU. citizen is an 'overstayer' you would need to either have Visas or an entry stamp - most EU. citizens have ID Cards rather than passports, which makes this rather difficult. It all adds up to longer queues at customs and tourists no longer feeling welcome. The majority of visits to London (20 million per year) are spontaneous long weekend visits - which could easily by replaced by Amsterdam or Paris. There is also the question of language learning holidays - which are currently relocating to Ireland and Malta. Currently tourists from Japan and the USA. also benefit from the existing relationship with the EU. in as much as frictionless travel between London, Paris and Berlin enables them to pack a lot into their short holidays.
I very much doubt tourist numbers will diminish, we will have to wait and see.
Today in PMQs the PM had it pointed out to her that when she was seeking election she vowed to fight the expansion of Heathrow, but had clearly changed her mind. If the PM could change her mind, why are the general public not allowed to do the same? Prof. John Curtis has just completed an in depth survey since the notices have started to appear about problems arising from a no deal situation, and has found that if given another vote, the public would vote 59% remain, 41% leave.
It is obvious that to leave is no longer the will of the people now they know what it actually means.
It is obvious that to leave is no longer the will of the people now they know what it actually means.
yorkshirehornet
Well-Known Member
...... and that would make for a 'better' democracy that got us into this mess
Today Raab was in front of the European committee and listening to him it became obvious that this one time hard Brexiteer now sees the problems of the UK position.
He confirmed that the whole UK wants to stay in the single market and customs union for a period of time. Asked if this was the official position he confirmed it. This was to get round the DUP veto
He confirmed that the whole UK wants to stay in the single market and customs union for a period of time. Asked if this was the official position he confirmed it. This was to get round the DUP veto
yorkshirehornet
Well-Known Member
I know this is a cut and paste but completely sums up.. well 95% of it why i voted to Remain and am a staunch advocate of it...
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Yorkie not against your position and if there is a second ref I will vote to stay. But these type of lists are total rubbish.
The truth is that the EU has accumulated a fund which the UK is a major contributor. It hasn't found more money.
Then it wasted some of that money. For example the port of Gijon which has almost no trade, destroyed jobs, and much of the money vanished. It destroyed the mining inustry but the promised replacement jobs never turned up. And you could make a list just as long as your list above for such failures.
Then there's the overheads of EU administration.
The point is the kitty is now smaller.
Then they fund some good things, most of which could and would have been done anyway.
As I say pro EU but I am a staunch advocate against promotional falsity.
Of course there are projects that have involved several countries, including the space program, GPS and Airbus. And it has made movement and trade easier for most.
And it has offered a fairer legal system and courts that have stopped several injusticies.
And it does encourage and facilitate talk and not aggression.
It now seems that ERG has not been able to agree an alternative set of proposals on how we should leave the EU. So while they continue to disagree with the PM, it is fair to ask what their solution is. All of the headlines today are about the split in the Tory party, yet that is nothing new. Maybe we should be ask what is right for the country, not a political party, but with the press wanting to take sides rather than explain facts, it looks like an uphill battle.
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