Off Topic The Politics Thread

[sb_73]

I don't agree that R-M is an extremist, political or religious. He believes in the sanctity of life, and in what had been the traditional view that life begins at conception. I don't hold with that, most don't. But he's entitled to that view and I don't believe it makes him an "extremist".

Well, he’s a hypocrite then as his company invests in the manufacture of abortion pills. Seems there is a big market for their illegal use in Indonesia. Apparently this mortal sin is absolved because he wasn’t directly involved in the decision to invest ( like he wasn’t involved in his firm’s decision to set up a Brexit proof fund in Ireland) . Presumably he is also not directly involved in the decision to continue this investment. Though he would deny his own daughter an abortion if she became pregnant through rape. Must be great to have a direct line to God on this stuff and to know that God supports the notion that making money is a holy activity.*

Extremists are entitled to their views like anyone else, and like anyone else they are entitled to have their views mocked and ridiculed.




*This is and was in fact a serious debate within the Catholic Church and has been for centuries. Many were tortured by the Inquisition and then burned or hung for attesting to the poverty of Christ and that his followers should adopt the same property free approach to life. St Francis kicked it all off. Various Popes and Bishops were less than keen on the idea, doubtless because it would mean relinquishing their riches, and presumably St Mogg sides with them in this debate. See Umberto Ecco’s The Name of the Rose for an in depth and quite brilliant dissection (you won’t get it from the fillum).

 

[Staines R's]

Is 48.7% a significant element? Or 35%. Or 15%? I could go on. He did not say ' a majority' or 'most' so your post # 19989 is a misrepresentation or misunderstanding. Even Ellers got it right in his post which followed your list of duff questions.
'

I stand by my original statement that I disagree that ‘a lot of the idiot racists/xenophobes were/are over 60’ and that it is a generalisation.

It really doesn’t matter to me whatsoever if you agree or disagree.

 

[DT’s Socks]

See that QPR apart from Man Utd are the worst club in debt from the U.K. in Europe

We stand 5th at €279m in official debt UEFA

480% assets 250% revenue

After Brexit the value of the pound will be critical

 

[Goldhawk-Road]

Well, he’s a hypocrite then as his company invests in the manufacture of abortion pills. Seems there is a big market for their illegal use in Indonesia. Apparently this mortal sin is absolved because he wasn’t directly involved in the decision to invest ( like he wasn’t involved in his firm’s decision to set up a Brexit proof fund in Ireland) . Presumably he is also not directly involved in the decision to continue this investment. Though he would deny his own daughter an abortion if she became pregnant through rape. Must be great to have a direct line to God on this stuff and to know that God supports the notion that making money is a holy activity.*

Extremists are entitled to their views like anyone else, and like anyone else they are entitled to have their views mocked and ridiculed.




*This is and was in fact a serious debate within the Catholic Church and has been for centuries. Many were tortured by the Inquisition and then burned or hung for attesting to the poverty of Christ and that his followers should adopt the same property free approach to life. St Francis kicked it all off. Various Popes and Bishops were less than keen on the idea, doubtless because it would mean relinquishing their riches, and presumably St Mogg sides with them in this debate. See Umberto Ecco’s The Name of the Rose for an in depth and quite brilliant dissection (you won’t get it from the fillum).

Care has to be taken when using the term "extremist" which denotes someone who wants to inflict extreme view on others, often using violence.

I see no sign R-M wants to do this ( and certainly not the violence). I note you single out his daughter for the time that he is her parental guardian. But I see him as a loving family man and not a brick-headed bigot, and if his daughter became pregnant by rape, I believe he would defer to her for her views, though he may try to influence her decision with his own.

Sure, you don't agree with him so continue to mock and ridicule

I don't know anything about his connection with the manufacture of abortion pills so can't comment.

 

[sb_73]

Care has to be taken when using the term "extremist" which denotes someone who wants to inflict extreme view on others, often using violence.

I see no sign R-M wants to do this ( and certainly not the violence). I note you single out his daughter for the time that he is her parental guardian. But I see him as a loving family man and not a brick-headed bigot, and if his daughter became pregnant by rape, I believe he would defer to her for her views, though he may try to influence her decision with his own.

Sure, you don't agree with him so continue to mock and ridicule

I don't know anything about his connection with the manufacture of abortion pills so can't comment.

Honestly Goldie, just because it’s me posting doesn’t mean you have to take an opposite stance!

Huge amount of hypotheticals in your response, which I would say you would need a deep personal knowledge of him to sustain. I would say if someone professes faith as strongly as he does (but to be fair to him he does try to separate his personal morality from public life and says it’s not about forcing his views on people he doesn’t know) then to do the opposite to what his faith demands when put to the personal test is either hypocrisy or a sign that perhaps his faith isn’t that important to him after all.

The abortion pill stuff is well documented, all available via Google, and he has not denied it. You could put it in a dictionary as an example under Hypocrite.

St Mogg is the same type of politician as Corbyn, at home on the back benches perched on his personal moral high ground, being accountable for nothing. But at least Corbyn has the balls to take on some responsibility now, even if it was by mistake and he is proving to be epically **** at his job. When the Tories are in opposition it would be fun to see Jake in the same role.

 

[West London Willy]

Care has to be taken when using the term "extremist" which denotes someone who wants to inflict extreme view on others, often using violence.

'Holds extreme views' not necessarily 'inflicts those views on others'.

An important, and yet often omitted, distinction that Stan is making here, IMO.

 

[Goldhawk-Road]

Honestly Goldie, just because it’s me posting doesn’t mean you have to take an opposite stance!

Huge amount of hypotheticals in your response, which I would say you would need a deep personal knowledge of him to sustain. I would say if someone professes faith as strongly as he does (but to be fair to him he does try to separate his personal morality from public life and says it’s not about forcing his views on people he doesn’t know) then to do the opposite to what his faith demands when put to the personal test is either hypocrisy or a sign that perhaps his faith isn’t that important to him after all.

The abortion pill stuff is well documented, all available via Google, and he has not denied it. You could put it in a dictionary as an example under Hypocrite.

St Mogg is the same type of politician as Corbyn, at home on the back benches perched on his personal moral high ground, being accountable for nothing. But at least Corbyn has the balls to take on some responsibility now, even if it was by mistake and he is proving to be epically **** at his job. When the Tories are in opposition it would be fun to see Jake in the same role.

You're a great debater, Stan and more than capable of holding your own (so to speak)

I just think you're being a bit hard on JR-M. I agree I'm making judgements when I don't know the bloke, but that's my perception of him. He has his beliefs but he's not a bully. Your comparison with Corbyn is interesting and has some resonance. Since Corbyn is now having his day, may be JR-M will

 

[ELLERS]

We're into August silly season. Expect a stop-press report later today, on what cossie Theresa's wearing on the beach with Manny Macron

Great she will be in my neck of the woods. If I bump into her in the sea should I push her head under the water?

 

[Goldhawk-Road]

'Holds extreme views' not necessarily 'inflicts those views on others'.

An important, and yet often omitted, distinction that Stan is making here, IMO.

I'm happy to concede JR-M holds extreme views on abortion. But that doesn't make him an "extremist", which is the word Stan and Strolls used, not least because he doesn't force those views on anyone else

 

[ELLERS]

If there's a decent independent evidence that the meetings took place, fine. But politicians meet all the time. As Stan says, Bannon had close links with Trump and is still influential in the US. He holds extreme views but he's not a terrorist. Corbyn held meetings with Hamas and the IRA when they were bombing and shooting civilians. I know what I think is worse. I can't get excited about it, unless any UK politician starts to promulgate Bannon's views for purposes of the UK.

I don't agree that R-M is an extremist. Any more than Blair and Clegg are extremists for wanting to overturn Brexit. I agree they're all on the extreme ends of the arguments.

They are all worried about Jacob Rees Mogg because they know he wouldn't put up for any EU crap. It's typical lefty news, trying to take attention off Corbyn and his problem with Jews.
They must be hating this.

 

[Goldhawk-Road]

Great she will be in my neck of the woods. If I bump into her in the sea should I push her head under the water?

I think her head's under the water already, Ellers!

 

[Staines R's]

Interesting item in the news today, presented in shock horror terms, about the supposed doubling in cases of sepsis, a truly horrible and frequently fatal condition. Looks bad on the face of it but digging deeper it becomes pretty apparent that overall death rates haven’t risen, and although reported numbers of sepsis cases have doubled, deaths from sepsis have gone up by 40%. This shows that diagnosis of the disease is getting better (and it’s a difficult one to diagnose and treat) and survival rates are in fact improving. On the Today programme after a long discussion with experts this became clear.

Two minutes later in the news headlines it was back to ‘deadly disease doubles’ panic, with none of the nuance.

FFS. If you are not capable of communicating complex things accurately and consistently, just don’t bother.

PS within an hour they started changing the numbers in the reports. Now sepsis has only gone up by a third. Hurrah. Might fall further as the day goes on.

Just seen this Stan. I think that sepsis is now being diagnosed more at a much early stage due to things like the NEWS system that we as HCPs are taught to use very quickly in any situation where we think sepsis should be considered.
Have you heard of it ? It works well.

 

[DT’s Socks]

They are all worried about Jacob Rees Mogg because they know he wouldn't put up for any EU crap. It's typical lefty news, trying to take attention off Corbyn and his problem with Jews.
They must be hating this.

I am not worried about JRM at all
Speaks well always and could easily be a PM of the U.K. Easily

What is happening here is you are looking at individuals to head up the U.K. a mouth because that is all it is

JRM values are not important at all only to the image the media wants us to believe in

Everyone has dirt

Brexiteer are loving him because of what he says if anyone seriously believe he could implement his beliefs out in the political threatre then you are naive

The U.K. public is looking for a new puppet before new politics are even written

Fickle Folly imo

Democracy we pile on everything on one human who we expect to be a super hero
Dictatorship more like

 

[sb_73]

Just seen this Stan. I think that sepsis is now being diagnosed more at a much early stage due to things like the NEWS system that we as HCPs are taught to use very quickly in any situation where we think sepsis should be considered.
Have you heard of it ? It works well.

No, but early diagnosis was the big problem when I took a more professional interest in this, back when I worked in the UK in the early 2000s. At that time my company launched the (still to my knowledge) only licensed treatment for sepsis. It remains my favourite product because it saved lives (I met people who had been saved). But it was very expensive and controversial, side effects that could be fatal in some patients, and clinicians were really nervous about using it because of this and the cost, and we really didn’t know how to market it and globally sold much less than we thought it would (did ok in the UK though, the higher the level of expertise in the disease the more likely they were to spot the right patient and use at the right time. I think Guy’s was the best at it, might have been King’s). Eventually we did another trial which had less clear results than the first one and took it off the market. All of the real experts in the field were furious, as was I.

The ethics of trials in diseases like this are really challenging. In life or death situations you don’t do the fancy double blinded placebo/comparator stuff. The first trial was in fact stopped early because we were told it was unethical not to give everyone the drug as it seemed to work, so we never had full data from it.

Sorry, bit of a wander off topic.......

 

[ELLERS]

But at least Corbyn has the balls to take on some responsibility now, even if it was by mistake and he is proving to be epically **** at his job.

Does that include responsibility for his Brexit stance? Corbyn is a hypocrite. He has got off lightly compared to others whom people are blaming. His naivety has caused him problems with the Jewish community. His outdated politics has caused problems from within his party. His choice of personnel in the shadow cabinet is embarrassing. However, you are correct in that he is **** at his job. He will never be PM because like the EU he will never adapt or change.

 

[ELLERS]

See that QPR apart from Man Utd are the worst club in debt from the U.K. in Europe

We stand 5th at €279m in official debt UEFA

480% assets 250% revenue

After Brexit the value of the pound will be critical

If that debt is in Euro's I would suggest they leave it for 3-4 years as it will probably be worthless.

 

[ELLERS]

I just have realised that May is over here in France to grovel. First it was Jeremy @@@@ and now May. Macron loves the Euro dream, he is not going to give in. We really are making ourselves look weak. Should have sent Farage he would have sorted them out.

If I see her in the seas I will definitely push her head under the water.

 

[DT’s Socks]

Farage seriously

Macron is powerful at the moment as is France so I don’t agree that the EU will fold
In fact I believe it will become mighty and we will asking to re enter the EU within 5 years

I would like to see Farage hung

 

[ELLERS]

Farage seriously

Macron is powerful at the moment as is France so I don’t agree that the EU will fold
In fact I believe it will become mighty and we will asking to re enter the EU within 5 years

I would like to see Farage hung

DT I have not been doing my usual reading on French politics so I will bow to your knowledge re Macron. He seems to have gained in popularity since a few weeks ago then.
Your comments on the EU are laughable though.

 

[Goldhawk-Road]

I just have realised that May is over here in France to grovel. First it was Jeremy @@@@ and now May. Macron loves the Euro dream, he is not going to give in. We really are making ourselves look weak. Should have sent Farage he would have sorted them out.

If I see her in the seas I will definitely push her head under the water.

Yes, I'm afraid the French press are reporting that she's pleading with MannyMac to keep her plan and her job. Before you push her head under, Ellers, shout "Neville Chamberlain" at her!