Off Topic UK / EU Future

Quite right, let him carry on damaging the Labour Party.

 

You must have something in mind that has impacted on your everyday life to feel that you are being dictated to. Your constant evasion to give an example is looking more as if you don't have really have an issue with it.

 

There is scarcely a country in the World which has complete control over it's own laws SH. Almost all nations observe all principles of International law. If you add up all the Geneva Conventions, United Nations Conventions and Charter, UN. Security Council, International Criminal Court, WTO rules, IMF, Kyoto Protocol etc. etc. the scope for national sovereignty is what is left after all that.

 

I'd rather take that than what we have at present, some on here would like the UK to be a Vichy type of government subservient to those in Brussels.

 

17.4 million Brits dislike the control by the eurocrats, that is why they successfully voted for Brexit.

 

When can you get it into your head that 'Brussels' is not some place over there which decides our laws against our will - we are part of it, and helped to form those laws. In fact we have had our way in forming those laws more than any other state - 95% of all EU. laws were voted for by the British delegation. That is a higher percentage than for any other country.

 

It's amazing how often some Brexiters revert to WWII phraseology to make their points. The idea that Brussels is the same as Nazi Germany is tasteless, and absurd and utterly wrong headed. And it shows that those using such terms are devoid of any coherent arguments.

 

I'm delighted to hear you say that.
Therefore if the UK's elected government decides the people need to clarify their choice now that we really understand brexit you will support the referendum.

 

The majority in the referendum disagreed with you I'm afraid.

 

No I expect the MPs to respect their own method of deciding if the Uk stayed or not. The UK voted to leave so we leave.

 

Come come. SH is showing how modern he is. Boris or one of his lot compared it to a vassal state - that is going back centuries - at least we are now only going back 70 odd years

 

True.

 

Not an acceptable argument I am afraid. You either accept MPs have the right to make rules or not. If they now choose to have a second referendum your position is contradictory as MPs would still be the UK's elected government which you say you support. Which is it? Or do you mean you only support it if it goes your way - which means you do not support it at all?

 

Same result, some are quite happy to be ruled by foreign masters, rule me out thanks.

 

On a personal level you are happy to allow the state to rule you - making laws you must obey. That is because you know that it is a way of guaranteeing your safety and prosperity. Why is it different if a state agrees to give a measure of law making to a super- national body for areas where there is a common interest? You would presumably not like to travel around Europe not knowing which laws were different where? If you are exporting or importing isn't it good for you to know there is one common standard?

 

I prefer to be governed by elected representatives forming a UK government which has control of its own laws. This set up is used in the majority of countries around the world, the EU system is the odd example.
The growing level of disquiet amongst EU member countries suggest there are major problems ahead trying to keep the project on the road. I imported and exported with several non EU and EU countries under common standards, easy peasy.

 

The MP's decided to settle the issue of remaining or leaving with one referendum. There was no provision to re-run if the establishment failed to get the answer it wanted. So far the MPs have respected democracy and parliament's choice of deciding, I expect their morals to stay intact.

 

Sorry SH. you could not be more wrong - the EU. is not an odd example, but rather the way forward. The rest of the World are either in similar organizations, or are on the way to becoming so. We have the Union of South American Nations with a framework akin to the EU. which will be formalized by the end of 2019, with it's own passport and currency. We have the African Union, the Organization of American States, the Pacific Islands Forum and the Asian Cooperative Dialogue. After Brexit the only countries which will not be alligned to any of these will be North Korea, Taiwan, Iraq, Syria, Belarus and the UK. nb. Russia is in the Council of Europe and the Asian Cooperation Dialogue. Whether you like it or not the whole World is forming blocks.

 

I doubt any of these require member states to hand over sovereignty. I expect the UK will join several trading blocks after Brexit, it is up to the EU if they want to continue the idea of self harm or not.

 

He's full of it! Newsnight viewers mock 'scaremongering' British Sandwich Association chief after he warns a no deal Brexit might limit choice of fillings

A new one for the remoaners to highlight? Osborne would have been proud of that one.