Off Topic The Politics Thread

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Should the UK remain a part of the EU or leave?

  • Stay in

    Votes: 56 47.9%

  • Get out

    Votes: 61 52.1%
  • Total voters
    117
  • Poll closed .
kiwiqpr said:
Why can't you vote in denmark
Do you only get that right if you were born there
You left England 14 years ago
why should you be allowed to vote there
Did you live in spain
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Not a Danish National
Was living in both England and Spain for years before and lost the right in UK.
Never had the right to begin with in Spain.

I am not allowed to vote in a General Election.
I am a however British, it was where I was born and what it says on my passport.
 
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danishqp said:
Have a similar personal issue.
Have a British passport as I was born in St. Mary's Harrow Road of Spanish parents.
Always loved England, especially London -could have had a Spanish passport many times over but this particula "Dago" was a Cocney Dago.
My choice odf passport did not stop me loving Spain slightly more than England but to no detriment to either - I was British though.
Moved to Denmark in 2004 - loved it, loved it before we moved over and love it more every day - today, not only is it home, it is my favourite place on Earth.
I qualify easily for a Danish passport - but ... I'm not Danish!! Again it does not stop me working and fighting for the Danish economy, I add to the social aspect by being a strong part of the local football club in Under 14 training, in addition I speak at local schools and am invited guest on a regular basis to Danish Universities discussing the most awaful of subjects - Supply chain Managemnt.
Now - I in my own "Zorba the Greek way" - I now love Denmark more than Spain or England - does that mean I'm Danish? Hell no - it means I love Denmark but I can never be Danish.

I cannot now vote in England, Spain or Denmark at General Elections - I have Danish parliamentary friends who are somewhat disturbed by the notion of how I've become disenfranchised ( I can vote at local elections in DK) and how we fight in that very name for democracy.

I will not become Danish - I know I have the safet net of a relatively high level position, that my work to fight for Danish comapnies against the steady move to the East has been well documented and would be the irony of all ironies to evict me.

But my and others' quandry remains - because we live somewhere else does not make us from there - but it does not stop us loving it and working for it even more than those that were.

Have spent the last 2 weeks on a beach in Puerto de Mazarron, the same place I've been going to for the last 46 years - on that beach now we have some tremendous bars where strangers from all countries have gathered to discuss Brexit - all with deep and genuine concern for each other.

What were these borders that you cold not control? - Denmark does it - Hell it won't even let in anyone from Sweden (their brothers, without cheking them anymore.
What genuinely were the laws you did not like? - No one has more outstanding cases against it than DK where it has flouted EU laws.
Who were the real foreigners you didn't like? - As I've said before - you do know the Stans will be coming over even more afterwards.

We all get it that the EU politicians needed and need a bloddy nose - the Dick Tories have played a blinder here haven't they!!

Listen, or read!! - All this bullshit paper , radio and politician talk is just that bullshit.

Europeans will not be forced out of countires that they have bulit succesful lives i for many years - it won't happen.
Trade will continue - not becasue the polotiicans say so - bacause Business will say so.

However, congratulations, it is the talking point along with the weather for Albarinho quaffing upper clas wannabees from Euroland!!

Hasta la vista babies.

You alright me ol chinas?
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What passport do your kids have Danelaw?

Can’t you get dual citizenship either UK/Spain (as you are Spanish by descent) or UK/Denmark? I’ve looked it up, all allowed if you move fast, before we crash and burn out. It’s just a bit of paper, shouldn’t change how you feel. I wish I could scam one somehow.

Good to hear from you.
 
danishqp said:
Not a Danish National
Was living in both England and Spain for years before and lost the right in UK.
Never had the right to begin with in Spain.

I am not allowed to vote in a General Election.
I am a however British, it was where I was born and what it says on my passport.
Click to expand...
like stan says
become a dane

why have you not done this already if it was such a concern
 
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danishqp said:
Not a Danish National
Was living in both England and Spain for years before and lost the right in UK.
Never had the right to begin with in Spain.

I am not allowed to vote in a General Election.
I am a however British, it was where I was born and what it says on my passport.
Click to expand...

Totally agree with this. I have now been in France for nearly 8 years. I enjoy the work/life balance here, I have benefited from the healthcare system, as has my family, and my two kids are growing up naturally bilingual. However, I have a British passport. I work in tourism and often get asked if I feel more French, or if I wanted England or France in the World Cup. Both have the same answer, I may live here, and enjoy it, but I'm British and no matter where I am living that won't change. The only difference living here has made is that I feel European as well as British, and my hope is that that will not change.
 
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Food retailers are have a grim laugh at the government telling them they should start stockpiling food in the event of a no deal Brexit. They have similarly said that medicines wholesalers should start to build up stocks of drugs.

You know, the kind of stuff you would do if a war was imminent. Reassuring isn’t it?

It also displays such a stunning ignorance of the facts of life around cash flow, distribution and logistics, just the way that trade, especially trade in perishable goods (which medicines are, some of them have stunningly short use by dates, have to be made up and used within hours) works, that one wonders quite how stupid our government and their advisors are. Perhaps they will start issuing ration cards as well, just to build up our confidence that all will be well.

Though it is quite impressive how totally the Tories have committed to no longer being the party of business. Bravo. Can anyone tell me what, exactly, they are the party of now? Certainly not the party of low tax, the tax burden now is the highest it has been for 50 years, since the days of super tax on the wealthy, and tax will go up to pay for the promises to the NHS.

Barnier has said that May’s offer to collect customs duties on behalf of the EU, the cornerstone of her Chequers not quite agreement, is not acceptable. Which was entirely predictable.
 
sb_73 said:
Food retailers are have a grim laugh at the government telling them they should start stockpiling food in the event of a no deal Brexit. They have similarly said that medicines wholesalers should start to build up stocks of drugs.

You know, the kind of stuff you would do if a war was imminent. Reassuring isn’t it?

It also displays such a stunning ignorance of the facts of life around cash flow, distribution and logistics, just the way that trade, especially trade in perishable goods (which medicines are, some of them have stunningly short use by dates, have to be made up and used within hours) works, that one wonders quite how stupid our government and their advisors are. Perhaps they will start issuing ration cards as well, just to build up our confidence that all will be well.

Though it is quite impressive how totally the Tories have committed to no longer being the party of business. Bravo. Can anyone tell me what, exactly, they are the party of now? Certainly not the party of low tax, the tax burden now is the highest it has been for 50 years, since the days of super tax on the wealthy, and tax will go up to pay for the promises to the NHS.
Click to expand...

The best bit is there are people blaming the EU for this.
 
Serious stuff now.

For the first time in 30 years the average British household is spending more than it earns -£900 a year more. Of course the poor overspend by most, up to 2.5 times their income, whereas the wealthiest spend less than half of theirs.

This means we run on ever increasing debt. £37bn was deposited in saving accounts last year, with £80bn borrowed. So the banks are lending far more than they are getting in.

All is fine as long as the poor keep paying the interest and get further in debt, as long as they spend. But of course the tiniest downturn in the economy or rise in interest rates (planned) will increase the number of people defaulting and once a critical mass of these is reached the whole thing comes tumbling down as we realise the whole system is built on fresh air, ‘confidence’ and greed.

We know it will crash because it has many times before, most notably in 2008. We have spent 10 years propping up a system that will inevitably, by its very nature, **** us right up again. ‘Austerity’ has achieved nothing except make the rich, who have no skin in the game, richer and the poor poorer. Will we ever learn?

Quite cross.
 
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sb_73 said:
Serious stuff now.

For the first time in 30 years the average British household is spending more than it earns -£900 a year more. Of course the poor overspend by most, up to 2.5 times their income, whereas the wealthiest spend less than half of theirs.

This means we run on ever increasing debt. £37bn was deposited in saving accounts last year, with £80bn borrowed. So the banks are lending far more than they are getting in.

All is fine as long as the poor keep paying the interest and get further in debt, as long as they spend. But of course the tiniest downturn in the economy or rise in interest rates (planned) will increase the number of people defaulting and once a critical mass of these is reached the whole thing comes tumbling down as we realise the whole system is built on fresh air, ‘confidence’ and greed.

We know it will crash because it has many times before, most notably in 2008. We have spent 10 years propping up a system that will inevitably, by its very nature, **** us right up again. ‘Austerity’ has achieved nothing except make the rich, who have no skin in the game, richer and the poor poorer. Will we ever learn?

Quite cross.
Click to expand...

As I understand it, all 'austerity' achieved (if it was an achievement?) was to slow down the rate of borrowing.
 
sb_73 said:
Serious stuff now.

For the first time in 30 years the average British household is spending more than it earns -£900 a year more. Of course the poor overspend by most, up to 2.5 times their income, whereas the wealthiest spend less than half of theirs.

This means we run on ever increasing debt. £37bn was deposited in saving accounts last year, with £80bn borrowed. So the banks are lending far more than they are getting in.

All is fine as long as the poor keep paying the interest and get further in debt, as long as they spend. But of course the tiniest downturn in the economy or rise in interest rates (planned) will increase the number of people defaulting and once a critical mass of these is reached the whole thing comes tumbling down as we realise the whole system is built on fresh air, ‘confidence’ and greed.

We know it will crash because it has many times before, most notably in 2008. We have spent 10 years propping up a system that will inevitably, by its very nature, **** us right up again. ‘Austerity’ has achieved nothing except make the rich, who have no skin in the game, richer and the poor poorer. Will we ever learn?

Quite cross.
Click to expand...

The alternative to austerity was more borrowing - which is what households are doing too much of anyway. I'm no economist, but this idea we borrow our way out of debt seems a bit of a fairy tale
 
Goldhawk-Road said:
The alternative to austerity was more borrowing - which is what households are doing too much of anyway. I'm no economist, but this idea we borrow our way out of debt seems a bit of a fairy tale
Click to expand...

Depends really. If interest on that borrowing is relatively cheap, a capable government should back itself to see a positive return.
 
West WindsR said:
Depends really. If interest on that borrowing is relatively cheap, a capable government should back itself to see a positive return.
Click to expand...

I see the argument, but if there isn't a positive return, we're Venezuela Mark 2. There's nothing stopping businesses from borrowing, employment is at a near all time high. As I say, I'm not expert, but the thought of the government taking on more debt worries the hell out of me
 
Goldhawk-Road said:
The alternative to austerity was more borrowing - which is what households are doing too much of anyway. I'm no economist, but this idea we borrow our way out of debt seems a bit of a fairy tale
Click to expand...
I guess you are talking about government borrowing. I don’t think even the Tories deny that under austerity the gap between rich and poor has widened. People are borrowing because we have created a high employment low wage economy, and everyone is encouraged to buy stuff all the time, because this is ‘growth’. Austerity might have contributed to personal debt levels, but the fundamental issue is the behaviour of the financial sector and the ease of getting credit, plus our relaxed national attitude to personal debt (which horrifies my German, Italian and Japanese friends). It’s a house of cards, small changes in circumstances (let’s say in April next year) will send the whole thing crashing again, and the government will need to decide whether to do the same again - bail out the financiers and ladle on the austerity, or try something different.

This is not a party political point, Labour went for the bailout and limited austerity, Cameron/Osbourne exaggerated it. Next time might be a bit different, more UK focussed rather than global.

When it happens, as it inevitably will, and Vince Cable claims that he predicted it but didn’t tell anyone, you can say ‘**** off Vince, Stan was way ahead’. Good time to invest in debt collecting/ bailiff firms.
 
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sb_73 said:
I guess you are talking about government borrowing. I don’t think even the Tories deny that under austerity the gap between rich and poor has widened. People are borrowing because we have created a high employment low wage economy, and everyone is encouraged to buy stuff all the time, because this is ‘growth’. Austerity might have contributed to personal debt levels, but the fundamental issue is the behaviour of the financial sector and the ease of getting credit, plus our relaxed national attitude to personal debt (which horrifies my German, Italian and Japanese friends). It’s a house of cards, small changes in circumstances (let’s say in April next year) will send the whole thing crashing again, and the government will need to decide whether to do the same again - bail out the financiers and ladle on the austerity, or try something different.

This is not a party political point, Labour went for the bailout and limited austerity, Cameron/Osbourne exaggerated it. Next time might be a bit different, more UK focussed rather than global.

When it happens, as it inevitably will, and Vince Cable claims that he predicted it but didn’t tell anyone, you can say ‘**** off Vince, Stan was way ahead’. Good time to invest in debt collecting/ bailiff firms.
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The wealth gap widens, yet the rich are paying an increasing proportion of tax. At least most are. Perhaps the Amazons could pay more, but they avoid tax everywhere including the US.

I accept there are families that are stretched because of high rents etc. But I also think that there are families in higher income brackets that want a good standard of living and are prepared to borrow to get it without too much thought about repayment. The new car, the holiday in the Bahamas, the house extension. It's poor financial planning, and may be this is something that should be taught in school, the rudiments anyway.

I agree with you we're dealing with a house of cards, and potential negative equity in the next few years if interest rates rise, borrowers default and houses are repossessed. The financiers should be properly capitalised this time, post-2008, but it could send property prices in a spiral downwards.
 
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