Off Topic The Politics Thread

[ELLERS]

We’re a schizophrenic with one half of the brain telling us to do a tango and the other half the Macarena.

But it’s their fault, obviously. We’re organised and ready to crack on.

The problem is some can't tango (even though the majority can ) and because they can't tango they don't want us to dance. Instead of learning the dance they have just got the hump.

 

[colognehornet]

Heavens! I agree with Ellers on something...

Those of us who are English (and I include anyone born and raised in England, no matter what they look like, how they pray or what they wear) should be happy to identify as English. That includes celebrating St.Georges Day and recapturing the English flag from the far-right who have tried to steal it. I do think they've tried to make my countries flag their symbol and blur being English with being right wing. I resent that hugely.

The Union Flag is the flag of the UK (apart from the Welsh). It doesn't represent the country of England. It represents the state. We poor English don't even have our own parliament.

Flags can be emotive things. Sometimes people burn them at demos (mostly American), Ronald Koemann wiped his arse with the German flag after the Euros semi final in Hamburg in 1988, and it is considered as the ultimate insult - yet it's only a coloured bit of cloth. For years the Germans were a bit guilty about all expressions of patriotism like waving of flags etc. but then this all changed in the 2006 World Cup. Other countries have fewer problems with this. I don't really like the waving of any flags - the average German doesn't know where the colours come from anyway. Maybe national flags belong in front of a town hall but nowhere else. I have more problem with national anthems - particularly the British one. The words of it emphasize that I cannot be patriotic without also being a Royalist - I do not want her to reign over us, or anyone else from her family to do so 'Happy and glorious' or in any other way. I always begin England matches by hoping for something special - but then I have this sinking feeling during the anthem, which is reinforced when hearing English fans singing it a second time, along with crap like rule Britannia.

 

[Star of David Bardsley]

The problem is some can't tango (even though the majority can ) and because they can't tango they don't want us to dance. Instead of learning the dance they have just got the hump.

Two years on and you haven’t chosen a ****ing song.

 

[Deleted.......]

Two years on and you haven’t chosen a ****ing song.

The Tories have narrowed the list down to 25 though so it's progress of sorts. Labour can't even find the frigging record player...

 

[ELLERS]

Classic LBC today Jacob Rees Mogg ripping one into 'Remoaner callers'. He needs to be our spokesperson.
Next PM!

 

[Star of David Bardsley]

Classic LBC today Jacob Rees Mogg ripping one into 'Remoaner callers'. He needs to be our spokesperson.
Next PM!

Man of the people!

 

[Deleted.......]

Man of the people!

I'm more concerned that he's never held any posts which would make him suitable to lead our negotiations. And, more to the point, when quizzed on certain aspects of treaties he has often got it wrong. Sure they're complicated but I expect a self styled intellectual to get it right. And in the interests of balance I wouldn't have any confidence in the likes of Corbyn or Thornbury either.

 

[rangercol]

Flags can be emotive things. Sometimes people burn them at demos (mostly American), Ronald Koemann wiped his arse with the German flag after the Euros semi final in Hamburg in 1988, and it is considered as the ultimate insult - yet it's only a coloured bit of cloth. For years the Germans were a bit guilty about all expressions of patriotism like waving of flags etc. but then this all changed in the 2006 World Cup. Other countries have fewer problems with this. I don't really like the waving of any flags - the average German doesn't know where the colours come from anyway. Maybe national flags belong in front of a town hall but nowhere else. I have more problem with national anthems - particularly the British one. The words of it emphasize that I cannot be patriotic without also being a Royalist - I do not want her to reign over us, or anyone else from her family to do so 'Happy and glorious' or in any other way. I always begin England matches by hoping for something special - but then I have this sinking feeling during the anthem, which is reinforced when hearing English fans singing it a second time, along with crap like rule Britannia.

This lack of patriotism is indicative of the way things are going these days.
You only have to look at the "QPR or England" thread for more evidence.
Thankfully enough patriots voted for independence.

Everyone is entitled to their point of view, but I find it very sad.
As I've said before, if today's attitudes were prevalent in the thirties, we would all be speaking German now.

I'll await all the incoming!

 

[sb_73]

This lack of patriotism is indicative of the way things are going these days.
You only have to look at the "QPR or England" thread for more evidence.
Thankfully enough patriots voted for independence.

Everyone is entitled to their point of view, but I find it very sad.
As I've said before, if today's attitudes were prevalent in the thirties, we would all be speaking German now.

I'll await all the incoming!

On a point of historical accuracy the prevailing attitude in the Thirties was to avoid war at all costs, virtually no matter what Hitler did. Churchill was a very isolated voice. It was only once Hitler made it impossible not to fight him that we got stuck in.

Though I do think the response once we were in would be very different today, I imagine riots if youngsters were drafted to fight.

We’ve had the debate about patriotism on here before. Just because I thought the best thing for my country would be to stay in the EU doesn’t make me any less of a patriot than you, it just means we have different opinions about what is best for the country. Though doubtless I am less of a patriot than you in your terms, even though I voted country on club v country, and that’s because I am cursed not to have unquestioning faith in anything at all - my problem, not an argument starter.

 

[Star of David Bardsley]

This lack of patriotism is indicative of the way things are going these days.
You only have to look at the "QPR or England" thread for more evidence.
Thankfully enough patriots voted for independence.

Everyone is entitled to their point of view, but I find it very sad.
As I've said before, if today's attitudes were prevalent in the thirties, we would all be speaking German now.

I'll await all the incoming!

What’s patriotic about Brexit? Churchill’s descendants are against it.

QPR over England? Of course.

 

[rangercol]

On a point of historical accuracy the prevailing attitude in the Thirties was to avoid war at all costs, virtually no matter what Hitler did. Churchill was a very isolated voice. It was only once Hitler made it impossible not to fight him that we got stuck in.

Though I do think the response once we were in would be very different today, I imagine riots if youngsters were drafted to fight.

We’ve had the debate about patriotism on here before. Just because I thought the best thing for my country would be to stay in the EU doesn’t make me any less of a patriot than you, it just means we have different opinions about what is best for the country. Though doubtless I am less of a patriot than you in your terms, even though I voted country on club v country, and that’s because I am cursed not to have unquestioning faith in anything at all - my problem, not an argument starter.

I question everything mate, then come to my own conclusions. I'm not blind to things.
I didn't think I mentioned the vote, but hey, throw it in there anyway eh?

You're right in that we tried to avoid war at all costs, but then, when it was required, most felt it was their duty to fight for their Country and also their mates.
I just couldn't see that happening now.

 

[sb_73]

I question everything mate, then come to my own conclusions. I'm not blind to things.
I didn't think I mentioned the vote, but hey, throw it in there anyway eh?

You're right in that we tried to avoid war at all costs, but then, when it was required, most felt it was their duty to fight for their Country and also their mates.
I just couldn't see that happening now.

“Thankfully enough patriots voted for independence” re read your post. Apology accepted, and hence my comments about patriotism and the vote.

 

[rangercol]

What’s patriotic about Brexit? Churchill’s descendants are against it.

QPR over England? Of course.

Voting for independence was certainly a patriotic action where I was concerned.

 

[rangercol]

“Thankfully enough patriots voted for independence” re read your post. Apology accepted,

Ah well, except then obviously!
Apologies duley offered.

It's been a hectic few weeks.
I really should just duck out for a bit.

 

[colognehornet]

This lack of patriotism is indicative of the way things are going these days.
You only have to look at the "QPR or England" thread for more evidence.
Thankfully enough patriots voted for independence.

Everyone is entitled to their point of view, but I find it very sad.
As I've said before, if today's attitudes were prevalent in the thirties, we would all be speaking German now.

I'll await all the incoming!

The questions of 'love of homeland', on the one hand, and abstract loyalty to a flag, and adherance to a monarchy which is not even English are different things. Do you think that patriots would be giving up the pooled sovereignty of the EU. in favour of chasing trade deals Worldwide under unfavourable conditions ? Brexiters do not have a monopoly on patriotism, neither do Royalists, and definitely not those 'free marketeers' who would steal national assets and sell them on the open market - in this last context Corbyn is a true patriot.

 

[sb_73]

Ah well, except then obviously!
Apologies duley offered.

It's been a hectic few weeks.
I really should just duck out for a bit.

Don’t mate, the more voices the better.

I can’t wait for this **** to be over, whichever way it goes.

 

[rangercol]

The questions of 'love of homeland', on the one hand, and abstract loyalty to a flag, and adherance to a monarchy which is not even English are different things. Do you think that patriots would be giving up the pooled sovereignty of the EU. in favour of chasing trade deals Worldwide under unfavourable conditions ? Brexiters do not have a monopoly on patriotism, neither do Royalists, and definitely not those 'free marketeers' who would steal national assets and sell them on the open market - in this last context Corbyn is a true patriot.

Every member of the royal family that was born here is English.
Their ancestors aren't.

 

[ELLERS]

This lack of patriotism is indicative of the way things are going these days.
You only have to look at the "QPR or England" thread for more evidence.
Thankfully enough patriots voted for independence.

Everyone is entitled to their point of view, but I find it very sad.
As I've said before, if today's attitudes were prevalent in the thirties, we would all be speaking German now.

I'll await all the incoming!

Col everyone is entitled to a view and we should respect all views. We may not agree but we should respect.
Brexit has taken things to a new level. Some of the people that used to say 'respect all views' are now not respecting and throwing the toys out of the pram.
I love my country I am English, then British and lastly European. Most importantly I am English. If people cannot accept that then tough luck.
You can call yourself Scottish, Irish and Welsh but say 'I am English' is not allowed you are British.
Sadly throughout my life, I have seen how people have tried to change the great values this country holds. To be called a 'thick racist' because I didn't want to be part of a 'big boys club' in Europe. To tell me I am a fascist because I am proud of our flag or get a funny look when I sing the national anthem in a pub before an England game? Sadly we are not allowed to be proud of this country.
If people don't like my country then move away. If you don't like the system or our values move away.

 

[sb_73]

The questions of 'love of homeland', on the one hand, and abstract loyalty to a flag, and adherance to a monarchy which is not even English are different things. Do you think that patriots would be giving up the pooled sovereignty of the EU. in favour of chasing trade deals Worldwide under unfavourable conditions ? Brexiters do not have a monopoly on patriotism, neither do Royalists, and definitely not those 'free marketeers' who would steal national assets and sell them on the open market - in this last context Corbyn is a true patriot.

None of us English are English if you track it back far enough. Likewise almost any other country, we are a migratory species.

 

[Star of David Bardsley]

Voting for independence was certainly a patriotic action where I was concerned.

Then you’re deluded.