We're not in Schengen now, and were never going to be in Schengen. If our leaving means we need to sign up for Schengen, that makes our borders far LESS secure. Any Leavers worried about this mass immigration care to comment on that?
Off Topic The Politics Thread
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It’s just a hunch (like your hunch’s) but I still think you’re lying and have just googled it........no back track from me.
I didn't say that you should not have voting rights on this - just that we
London is only 2 hours from Brussels by train GoldieSeriously though the problem may be people not coming to England - nobody has as yet explained how the UK. will take control of it's borders (it does anyway) without pissing off the 14 million EU tourists who visit London every year - people who just come, spend their money, and then go. The number of such visits being around 40 times the number who come looking to remain in the country. Are you going to start issuing visas, and entry stamps, when most people within the EU. don't carry a passport - just an ID card ? Similarly I have not heard from any Brexiter exactly how Britain is going to increase it's sovereignty after Brexit, yet, at the same time go running after TTIP style deals with the rest of the World, and making itself 'attractive' for business ie. turning the country into a bargain basement society - not much 'sovereignty' in that model I'm afraid.
I would have thought passport or verifiable ID card but not visa. Simple.
The biggest item on sovereignty is who comes in to live and work. We have to get control, particularly re numbers incl non-EU. We're a big economy, so trade deals should mostly be negotiated on a level playing field.
Just as a point of fact, the Indian trade deal is off the table if the Chequers plan goes ahead. That is because to have a comprehensive trade deal with India we would need to have much lower food and chemical standards than required by the EU. Similar, I think, with the US. Even if we go down the no deal route we would have to lower consumer standards to have real free trade with some countries. At the same time we would have to maintain EU standards, even outside of the EU, to trade with EU countries. It’s a bit tricky for producers/manufacturers.
Yes but the way Cologne makes it sound, is that EU citizens don't need passports (i think they do, i might be wrong) but it is schengan-esque in that just show a passport and you are through.
Once removed, with visas and stamps etc, it will make it more time consuming and inconvenient to cross our borders. The point being, that shouldn't be a reason NOT to leave as thats a trivial matter.
yup - this is why we will not have a trade deal with India or the U.S. because of food standards.
If we do have a trade deal then i suspect food standards will have to be lowered and i will not be happy with it.
If they get one without having to import their foods then that would be brilliant
immigration (We just have our own **** border controls) no one tells us who we should take. Fish ( who gives a **** where it comes from) as long as its fresh, the NHS, Coffee shops etc, carers, road sweeps, cleaners will have severe problems without immigration.
We already had more concessions than most of the other EU members, farming rights, not in Shengen.
Nobody anywhere can say how we will be better off leaving. We have no industry in this country now, what are we going to trade and what we do have is so ****ing expensive nobody will buy it anyway.
We already had more concessions than most of the other EU members, farming rights, not in Shengen.
Nobody anywhere can say how we will be better off leaving. We have no industry in this country now, what are we going to trade and what we do have is so ****ing expensive nobody will buy it anyway.
As I said - until you cross the line and call me a liar (which you have) then I really didn't care. However - I do care about being called a liar.It’s just a hunch (like your hunch’s) but I still think you’re lying and have just googled it........no back track from me.
It's completely up to you - I know the truth and you're trying to work on some vague option that you can't possibly prove either way. However - it's simple. you can believe me all you want, but don't call me a liar. That's where the apology is needed.
I’m calling you a liar......and you ain’t getting an apology
Actually, after reading my posts I realise I’m being rather immature and making this thread into something it shouldn’t be.....I do apologise for that and will leave the thread for a while.
Sorry to all.
Good idea for everyone to cool off for a while.
This is the place for discussion not name calling....
Sent from my STF-L09 using Tapatalk
This is the place for discussion not name calling....
Sent from my STF-L09 using Tapatalk
EU. citizens do not need passports for travel within the EU. A simple ID Card is sufficient - a passport would be needed for travel outside of the EU. and, if they have one, then they may use it when entering Britain but it is not compulsory. My wife has entered Britain many times only with her German ID Card. Passports are much more expensive than ID Cards in most European countries, and so, unless going to the USA. or somewhere most people don't bother with them. I'm not sure about it being trivial Bobby - tourism is a very important industry for the South of England, particularly for London, and much of this is spontaneous long weekend tourism - the EU. makes up 65% of all visitors to London and also a large percentage of the language holiday trade in towns like Brighton and Bournemouth. For non EU. visitors a Visa for the EU. is sufficient also for the UK. so American and Japanese tourism may also be hit badly.
Not necessarily. I travel repeatedly to the US, Canada, Japan, for the first two you get an online visitors visa which lasts two years and costs less than $20, and for Japan I just turn up and they stamp my passport. Meanwhile going to India for work briefly is a nightmare for visa requirements, similar China and Russia. Both we and the EU can easily use existing tech to keep tourists and business travellers moving. Visas for those who want to come/go for work or to live, temporarily or long term, would probably be needed, but that is surely what we voted for?
To answer your above post
Very well put with respect to non EU visitors wanting to make the trip for EU to UK and vice versa (I would think if they flew around the world they would probably just pay for both).
For people travelling, i would expect that most travellers have a passport or would get one to visit UK.
I'm not denying that i would expect to see smaller numbers, but i'm sceptical of that number being that significant. Still it's good that you have said this as i hadn't considered some of these points.
The original debate i highlighted was more on UK not being able to process that many visitors if we had to issue out visas. This was a misinterpretation of what you wrote though so apologies for that
Quite a positive feel to the short pre-negotiation press conference between Raab and Barnier today. Barnier was less sarcastic and threatening than in the past. If there's a no deal, he fails too.
I like Raab. He's an intellectual, sharp lawyer, tough man and adamant Brexiteer. Good appointment by May, I'll give her that.
Should get a better steer when they report to the press tomorrow
I like Raab. He's an intellectual, sharp lawyer, tough man and adamant Brexiteer. Good appointment by May, I'll give her that.
Should get a better steer when they report to the press tomorrow
Intellectual lawyer with a Czech immigrant father? Grammar school, Oxford, Cambridge, the law, foreign office.........if that isn’t metropolitan elite I’ll be a monkeys uncle. What does he know of the wishes of the good people of Hartlepool?
But at the point of entry you don't know what reason a person has for coming to Britain Stan, and any attempt to separate EU. visitors according to their nationality (eg. from Belgium yes, from Rumania no) will see very serious repercussions from the EU. The problem is that many people think that Britain is the easiest country to pick up casual, cash in hand, work and they are right. To work in Germany I need to register my address at the local town hall, have a German bank account and a German health insurance - there is no way around this. If you register when people came into the country, then you also have to be able to control this afterwards, and Britain already has about a million illegal immigrants (ie. people overstaying Visas) having the same conditions for Europeans will simply increase this number.
I'm still confused by all these order we apparently take from the EU and that person in an office in Brussels who is making Turkish's life a misery! Could someone elaborate for a politically uneducated person like me please. I'm terrified to have fish and chips and these rumoured regulations about cheese have put me right off my crackers. Does our government get to veto any of these supposed orders?
Son of a refugee from the Nazi's. Hardly a silver spoon upbringing or aristocratic blood. What does he know about the wishes of Hartlepool voters? He knows they want to leave the EU, and shares that desire with them.
He got where he is now by his intellect and endeavour. He wasn't brought up in a 17th-century farmhouse which was once part of the Duke of Sutherland's Lilleshall estate - no, that was Jeremy Corbyn. And he wound up with more than the E at "A" level that prep school schoolboy Jeremy boasts.
If you eat mushy peas, you're a Leave voter, Bob. You just haven't Come Out yet