Off Topic The Politics Thread

[ELLERS]

Reminds me of when you were talking about disaffected Leave voters doing the same if they don't get the Brexit they wanted. You know the one - no deal, or do I mean Canada-style, or do I mean Norway-style or do I mean all the benefits without any of the payments? Gosh, so many Brexits, so little time to decide...

ouch!

 

[West London Willy]

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[ELLERS]

It stinks of desperation, Ellers. The elite are scared of Corbyns popularity and will try to bring him down by any means necessary. This is just the latest.

agree they are scared (especially bankers) but no smoke without fire with all this Jewish stuff I believe mate.

 

[Staines R's]

It's far more logical to take the position that people simply answered the question they were asked. If the question had stated 'leave with no deal' then I'd go with that assumption - but it didn't.

Let's get onto the truth here. The choice was between Stay (in which case the environment was 100% known - just as we had the day before the referendum) and Leave (which, as many of us said at the time and which has proved true, was completely unknown apart from that one thing - not being an EU member state.) Had the question said "walk away with zero arrangements for customs, immigration, trade, border control in Ireland, and still pay the EU £39 billion) I am absolutely certain that some that voted Leave would not have done so.

What makes you so certain ?
A hunch ? Your opinion ? Your superior intellect ?
Don’t you realise Willy it’s people like yourself that are strengthening ‘leave’ voters views with your pious ‘I know better than you’ attitude.
You do your side a big disservice.

 

[Staines R's]

agree they are scared (especially bankers) but no smoke without fire with all this Jewish stuff I believe mate.

Sorry mate, I just have to disagree with you for the reasons already mentioned.
We ain’t gonna change each other’s minds.

 

[Stroller]

Confirmation from Trump, India, China, Aussie PM. It has all been said why are you deny it?
As for the other trade deals? You are just using fear. I heard some German bloke last night who says he is "confident we will still be doing trade with the UK, why wouldn't we"? Go and tell all the German Car manufacturers that they will not be selling cars to the UK....Last about 5 minutes. Tell all the French wine companies they will not sell to the UK (their biggest partner)? mmm last until lunchtime then there will be a strike and a deal.
What you need to understand is that this is all about money and big business and they will still be trading with us. They may throw out a few messages of fear but behind the scenes they will be dealing.

What will be next... people didn't realise that banana's not being bent was a myth, so let's have another referendum. Sticks of desperation now.

I am not denying that they may have suggested willingness to do trade deals, but you don't just click your fingers and get it done. Donald (America First) Trump is busy putting up tariffs right left and centre - that one will be straightforward. India want freedom of movement - bring it on. China? - piece of piss. Yes, we will still trade with Europe, but it will be a lot more difficult and less beneficial, plus we will lose all the deals that we currently have (via the EU) with non-EU countries.

 

[ELLERS]

I am not denying that they may have suggested willingness to do trade deals, but you don't just click your fingers and get it done. Donald (America First) Trump is busy putting up tariffs right left and centre - that one will be straightforward. India want freedom of movement - bring it on. China? - piece of piss. Yes, we will still trade with Europe, but it will be a lot more difficult and less beneficial, plus we will lose all the deals that we currently have (via the EU) with non-EU countries.

Sort of agree re trump as I heard some American bloke who was saying Trump will only want a deal that benefits the US and will take advantage of the UK especially if desperate May is still in power.
However, the program I watched on SKY news recently showed how the UK had fab specialists in certain industries and they were all confident that work from the EU and non-EU was increasing and not decreasing like some want us to believe.

 

[ELLERS]

Sorry mate, I just have to disagree with you for the reasons already mentioned.
We ain’t gonna change each other’s minds.

 

[West London Willy]

What makes you so certain ?
A hunch ? Your opinion ? Your superior intellect ?
Don’t you realise Willy it’s people like yourself that are strengthening ‘leave’ voters views with your pious ‘I know better than you’ attitude.
You do your side a big disservice.

OK - if I'm so dumb and you're not - tell me how what I have said doesn't make most sense.

The question didn't make ANY reference to leaving without arrangements to leave being in place. It was a simple yes/no question, so inferring that 'leave' meant just one thing is crazy. And yet when I point this out, I'm being 'pious'? 'Stay' DID mean just one thing - surely not even you can argue against that.

Off you go. I'm listening. And if your answer isn't completely convincing, I'll be sure and share my opinion as to why.

 

[Staines R's]

OK - if I'm so dumb and you're not - tell me how what I have said doesn't make most sense.

The question didn't make ANY reference to leaving without arrangements to leave being in place. It was a simple yes/no question, so inferring that 'leave' meant just one thing is crazy. And yet when I point this out, I'm being 'pious'? 'Stay' DID mean just one thing - surely not even you can argue against that.

Off you go. I'm listening. And if your answer isn't completely convincing, I'll be sure and share my opinion as to why.

Where in any of my posts have I said you are dumb ?
I’ve said you are pious and I’ve said you are quite condescending (as it comes over in your last paragraph)...I’ve even called you a liar (in not so many words) about your ‘protest’ against the Saudis that I still don’t believe you went on......but I’ve never called you dumb.

 

[West London Willy]

Where in any of my posts have I said you are dumb ?
I’ve said you are pious and I’ve said you are quite condescending (as it comes over in your last paragraph)...I’ve even called you a liar (in not so many words) about your ‘protest’ against the Saudis that I still don’t believe you went on......but I’ve never called you dumb.

So no answer to my question? Seriously mate, I couldn’t care less what you think of me, as long as you’re not personally insulting. But please answer the question.

 

[Staines R's]

So no answer to my question? Seriously mate, I couldn’t care less what you think of me, as long as you’re not personally insulting. But please answer the question.

Leave meant leave......stay meant stay.......we’re leaving....get over it.


And could you answer my question about your Saudi protest.....where was it ?

 

[BobbyD]

Confirmation from Trump, India, China, Aussie PM. It has all been said why are you deny it?
As for the other trade deals? You are just using fear. I heard some German bloke last night who says he is "confident we will still be doing trade with the UK, why wouldn't we"? Go and tell all the German Car manufacturers that they will not be selling cars to the UK....Last about 5 minutes. Tell all the French wine companies they will not sell to the UK (their biggest partner)? mmm last until lunchtime then there will be a strike and a deal.
What you need to understand is that this is all about money and big business and they will still be trading with us. They may throw out a few messages of fear but behind the scenes they will be dealing.

What will be next... people didn't realise that banana's not being bent was a myth, so let's have another referendum. Sticks of desperation now.

depends what Merkel/Juncker wants.

Just look at Trump and China. They've decided to have a trade war and whoever is selling to each other will be hit.

 

[West London Willy]

Leave meant leave......stay meant stay.......we’re leaving....get over it.


And could you answer my question about your Saudi protest.....where was it ?

Pathetic answer, mate. Try again.

 

[BobbyD]

Leave meant leave......stay meant stay.......we’re leaving....get over it.


And could you answer my question about your Saudi protest.....where was it ?

I heard we're leaving the EU but staying in the customs union

 

[Staines R's]

Pathetic answer, mate. Try again.

Best I can come up with between jobs Wills
(Good to see you keep avoiding my question)

 

[West London Willy]

I heard we're leaving the EU but staying in the customs union

Exactly.

I shouldn't be surprised, I've yet to find any Leave voter that can clearly and honestly explain why they voted Leave and what they expected Leave to look like. Two years down the line, it's still a complete mess. However, as long as they think they can blame Remain voters somehow, I guess they don't really mind. It's a blame game now, and all a bit sad.

 

[colognehornet]

So just because you make your life in the EU you believe that people who live and work here don't get a say on how they want to live or vote? You and others chose to live abroad and should not dictate to us living in the UK.
I have spoken to many ex-pats about Brexit and all they are worried about is themselves. I find it rather selfish TBH.
I am sure that the EU being so interested in its citizens (I believe that is one of their priorities) will look after it's people and not just worry about big business?

I didn't say that you should not have voting rights on this - just that we

That's a new one for Project Fear, Cologne, disaffected ex-pats coming back to reek havoc, swivelling road signs, kicking old people's sticks from under them. Except that it won't easy for them to return because after a no-deal, everyone knows that aeroplanes won't fly again

London is only 2 hours from Brussels by train Goldie Seriously though the problem may be people not coming to England - nobody has as yet explained how the UK. will take control of it's borders (it does anyway) without pissing off the 14 million EU tourists who visit London every year - people who just come, spend their money, and then go. The number of such visits being around 40 times the number who come looking to remain in the country. Are you going to start issuing visas, and entry stamps, when most people within the EU. don't carry a passport - just an ID card ? Similarly I have not heard from any Brexiter exactly how Britain is going to increase it's sovereignty after Brexit, yet, at the same time go running after TTIP style deals with the rest of the World, and making itself 'attractive' for business ie. turning the country into a bargain basement society - not much 'sovereignty' in that model I'm afraid.

 

[West London Willy]

Best I can come up with between jobs Wills

Well I'm also working, however, in order to satisfy your curiosity, my attendance at a London protest against Saudi was about 10 or 11 years ago, when the King was on a royal visit. There was a focus on human rights and arms sales at the time, and it served both purposes. I was somewhere near Horseguards.

If you want me to be more specific, I'll need to google actual dates.

I've been on others, but not one about China directly (hence my 'as I recall' in the earlier post that made you call me a liar. Still waiting for that back-track, by the way)

 

[BobbyD]

I didn't say that you should not have voting rights on this - just that we

London is only 2 hours from Brussels by train Goldie Seriously though the problem may be people not coming to England - nobody has as yet explained how the UK. will take control of it's borders (it does anyway) without pissing off the 14 million EU tourists who visit London every year - people who just come, spend their money, and then go. The number of such visits being around 40 times the number who come looking to remain in the country. Are you going to start issuing visas, and entry stamps, when most people within the EU. don't carry a passport - just an ID card ? Similarly I have not heard from any Brexiter exactly how Britain is going to increase it's sovereignty after Brexit, yet, at the same time go running after TTIP style deals with the rest of the World, and making itself 'attractive' for business ie. turning the country into a bargain basement society - not much 'sovereignty' in that model I'm afraid.

I'm not sure that's really an argument for saying we should be part of the Schengan.

Millions of tourists visit Thailand etc etc and that isn't an issue for that. We would just need to increase our border control workforce.

I would expect there to potentially be an impact on the number of visitors though depending how prohibitive border control is and how alienated EU people feel