Off Topic The Politics Thread
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And she’s setting us up to leave the EU. No one voted for a hard or soft Brexit. Why are arch Leavers so desperate to **** the country up?
What has that bloke got to do with my post? Barking up the wrong tree Watford.
As you said no voted for a hard/soft Brexit but people voted to leave and that must happen. Leave me leave.
You were talking about people at the Trump march protesting what they don’t understand. My point was that’s far more of a ‘right’ trait than ‘left’ on current form.
And May’s plan is to leave, so what’s the problem? It’s almost like hard Brexiteers don’t want to compromise.
No actually if you leave something you leave, you don't half stay in.
It's like leaving your wife and living in the same house and not allowed to find a new partner without her say.
I understand how remainers seem to want this to fail but for the good of the country we must make a clean break.
I think you're mistaken. A 'no deal' Brexit is very likely and many people will be so relieved that it's finally happened, they won't care about the details.
At first...
It's about politicians permitting chaos and then blaming us, the electorate, at a time when the world is becoming a more perilous place.
- The Conservatives want to stay in government and suppress UKIP. I expect Farage to re-emerge and try again for a seat at Westminster. He'll need a job after we've left, despite the size of his EU pension. He'll say the public asked him to, of course...
- Within the Conservatives, the extreme right would like to take control from the patricians and turmoil is their best chance of getting public support without too much public scrutiny. They don't believe in the things they say they believe in, but some of us do and that's all that matters.
- Labour wants to become the government and has a better chance of doing so when a 'no deal Brexit starts to hit services, tax revenues, food prices, reduced benefits, the NHS gets privatised, etc. There's a saying amongst salespeople "No pain, no change", which basically means people accept the status quo until there's enough pain for them to want to do something else.
- Like all countries, the USA wants to open another market for their products - food, healthcare, cars. At the moment the EU tariffs and product standards make their products less compelling for the UK buyer. If they can get some more of our stuff using the money we've paid them for theirs, then I expect that'll be OK by them.
I want to see what the unicorn looks like before I decide to take it.
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In what way is that for the good of the country?
Who’s to say most Leavers voted for a hard Brexit? What if I voted for an EFTA type of agreement? This foot stomping from the right has no logic.
How long do you think it will be between all going to **** and blaming Remainers/immigrants?
Not really because I believe the people on that blokes march were demonstrating over a jail term (correct me if I am wrong). whereas the Trump March brought many groups protesting about different things. I have seen the different groups and I don't understand what some have to do with Trump. The usual mob.
Yes, a jail term he knew he was going to get if he broke the terms of his suspended sentence, which he clearly did and pleaded guilty on.
No, Ellers, it's not the people supporting Remain who want it to fail. We wanted to stop it altogether, but it's too late for that. I want it to be the best Brexit we can have that does the least damage. It's the people who will benefit from a cocked-up Brexit who want it to fail. And they're the ones who are cocking it up.
Sadly it is a mix between people that wouldn't accept the result and a crap weak PM who should have been stronger with the EU in the negotiations instead of being weak.
That's wrong Dipper. You need to stop blaming the hard Brexit mob. Their concerns are that it will be watered down when it goes to Brussels (which it will). She had a hand of strength and has made it weak. WE did not vote to be a lap dog to the EU in a fudged deal. Where we are restricted on making deals. Something that Donald said at chequers. Although chlorinated chicken does sound a bit weird and gross.
May has been giving in to them from day one and now people have had enough of her.
We all (hopefully) want a good deal but we need a deal that doesn't go against everything we voted for otherwise what was the point of the vote? If people then take that stance then it shows the EU is not democratic. Which by the way it isn't.
This is where I find myself - supporting May in facing down the loony extremists who don't care about the damage that a no-deal Brexit would cause. She is attempting to deliver on the referendum result, but in a way that does the least damage to the country. I hope she succeeds.
That's wrong Dipper. You need to stop blaming the hard Brexit mob. Their concerns are that it will be watered down when it goes to Brussels (which it will). She had a hand of strength and has made it weak. WE did not vote to be a lap dog to the EU in a fudged deal. Where we are restricted on making deals. Something that Donald said at chequers. Although chlorinated chicken does sound a bit weird and gross.
May has been giving in to them from day one and now people have had enough of her.
We all (hopefully) want a good deal but we need a deal that doesn't go against everything we voted for otherwise what was the point of the vote? If people then take that stance then it shows the EU is not democratic. Which by the way it isn't.
No, my fellow Rs supporter and forumite, I disagree. You need to START blaming the hard Brexit mob. They didn't win the election, Mrs May did. When the country elected the Conservatives last time, it wasn't on a platform of "walk away and suffer the consequences". It was about a "strong and stable Brexit that would make the country prosper". Very few of Mrs Mays government have managed to acquit themselves with any glory since then. The hard Brexit people have either been involved in making Brexit happen and messing it up - thus reducing our chances of a successful outcome - or sniping from the sidelines without actually participating in making it a success. All of them are peddling the line that it's saboteurs from within or incompetence when it's actually their own incompetence or wilful neglect that's making it fail.
Look, if the cabinet was a football team, how many players would the manager have dropped because they refused to play the system that was selected? Or because they didn't try hard enough because they want the managers job once he/she is sacked? And what would the fans think of them?
So what you are saying is you actually want a 'No Deal' Brexit? That's what you seem to be saying. You make a monstrously complex subject sound so simple at times. I don't know how you would describe a clean break but nothing about this is going to be clean and I'm afraid you are going to have to accept some compromise(s).
Sadly when the manager is weak and has no game plan and he/she has interference from the outside then it is hard to do their job. I have been saying from day one that the liberal elite/Remoaners who wouldn't accept the result/Blair and co/big business /The Lords/Certain Media have all contributed to try and bring this down. I also notice how all the May haters are now supporting her new Brexit vision? Is this because you know it will fail and hopefully get your way?
With a bit of luck Boris may finish her off in his upcoming speech and we can get a strong leader.
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What you read into regarding my comments is your choice.
I have never said it was going to be simple. I never said I wanted a 'No deal', I said it was heading that way(which it is).
How can you leave something that doesn't want you to leave?
How can you make a deal when certain sections of the country undermine you at every chance?
How can you make a deal with people who do not believe in democracy?
Why accept a deal which will not benefit you?
History will show that the democratic voice of the people was sabotaged. Hopefully we will get a strong leader and sort this mess out.
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