Off Topic The Politics Thread

[awjm]

It seems to me that there is a concerted campaign by the right (including Corbyn opponents in Labour) to exaggerate elements of anti-Semitism in the Labour party, and I would suggest that there are many more racists in the Tory party than in Labour. The cartoon that Adonis shared is not in any way racist in my opinion.

The media is the issue. The mainstream media has nothing to do with news reporting and all to do with thought control.

I'll not hide that I am principally against the Tory party in pretty much every way. But it's a fact that many within the party have displayed racism and some prominent Tories have recently been caught taking part in meetings on eugenics.

 

[Stroller]

Agree. I mentioned before if that cartoon wasn't against a Tory and was shared out n doubt the left would have jumped on it

The cartoon is drawing attention to the fact that as the new Home Secretary, Javid - unless he changes course - will be continuing the racist anti-immigrant policies introduced by Theresa May. Of course it's against a Tory - they are in government.

 

[Goldhawk-Road]

It seems to me that there is a concerted campaign by the right (including Corbyn opponents in Labour) to exaggerate elements of anti-Semitism in the Labour party, and I would suggest that there are many more racists in the Tory party than in Labour. The cartoon that Adonis shared is not in any way racist in my opinion.

There are racists at the extreme edges of the Tory party. But they don't use racism in support of their leader. My view is that Corbyn's problems in this respect are greater than you suggest - but then, you know my views!

 

[Goldhawk-Road]

I personally think that there will always be a strong anti-racist element in the left generally. Of course, there are idiots everywhere. But even today, anti-Semitism is a far bigger issue in the right. And (again personally) I believe that there is a strong racist element that will always be part of the right, not necessarily in direct abuse, verbally and physically.

Anti-semitism was a major issue with the Far Right in the 1930's when Mosley marched. I haven't heard of any anti-semitism in the Tory Party, at least, no recent examples. Though there is some Islamic abuse. I agree that racism forms an important part of the raison d'etre of the Hard Right - but that doesn't make what is happening in Corbyn's Labour any less unsettling imo

 

[Goldhawk-Road]

The media is the issue. The mainstream media has nothing to do with news reporting and all to do with thought control.

...some prominent Tories have recently been caught taking part in meetings on eugenics.

A new one on me. Who was it?

 

[BobbyD]

The cartoon is drawing attention to the fact that as the new Home Secretary, Javid - unless he changes course - will be continuing the racist anti-immigrant policies introduced by Theresa May. Of course it's against a Tory - they are in government.

This is where I have a problem with modern politics and what is deemed racist/non racist.

Firstly is xenophobia also racism (nationalities rather than colours)

Of course the deportation of illegal immigrants is going to be targeting more non whites than whites but let's be clear, both colours are being deported if they have overstayed (or any other race for the matter).

Mays policy was to be strict and to give no looking at context. It's a perfect example of poor implementation whether you agree with her policy or not.

I'm not sure I would be calling it racist, it's a removing people (in this case unrightly in the windrush case) who shouldn't be here.

It's effectively an extension of our border control where we don't just allow any tom dick and Harry into the country.

Where the Tories are getting rightfully castigated is that 1. They didn't think about people who didn't have documents to be British citizens and asking for 4 proofs per year (don't think most people would have this) and when knowing about this decided to do nothing.

That's the shocking treatment and may should go for this.

 

[awjm]

A new one on me. Who was it?

https://www.theguardian.com/educati...ate-secret-eugenics-conference-held-on-campus

 

[awjm]

There are racists at the extreme edges of the Tory party. But they don't use racism in support of their leader. My view is that Corbyn's problems in this respect are greater than you suggest - but then, you know my views!

I think the Tory party, generally, keeps a tight ship and they tend not to let things slip. But I think that racism is a part of the Conservative manifesto. Not just racism but other discriminations as well.

 

[awjm]

This is where I have a problem with modern politics and what is deemed racist/non racist.

Firstly is xenophobia also racism (nationalities rather than colours)

Of course the deportation of illegal immigrants is going to be targeting more non whites than whites but let's be clear, both colours are being deported if they have overstayed (or any other race for the matter).

Mays policy was to be strict and to give no looking at context. It's a perfect example of poor implementation whether you agree with her policy or not.

I'm not sure I would be calling it racist, it's a removing people (in this case unrightly in the windrush case) who shouldn't be here.

It's effectively an extension of our border control where we don't just allow any tom dick and Harry into the country.

Where the Tories are getting rightfully castigated is that 1. They didn't think about people who didn't have documents to be British citizens and asking for 4 proofs per year (don't think most people would have this) and when knowing about this decided to do nothing.

That's the shocking treatment and may should go for this.

https://www.theguardian.com/uk-news...rants-wrongly-face-deportation-experts-reveal

 

[Goldhawk-Road]

https://www.theguardian.com/educati...ate-secret-eugenics-conference-held-on-campus

This is stretching things! The "Tory" was a right wing journalist who was investigating and openly reporting on a UCL Lecturer who seems to promulgate some nasty views generally. Young wasn't adopting the lecturer's views, and I don't think Young is a member of the Tory Party anyway, though he was at one time favoured by them on education issues. Actually, I think Toby Young speaks a lot of sense most of the time, but he fell foul of social media after posting some student-humour type stuff that was not politically correct

 

[Uber_Hoop]

It seems to me that there is a concerted campaign by the right (including Corbyn opponents in Labour) to exaggerate elements of anti-Semitism in the Labour party, and I would suggest that there are many more racists in the Tory party than in Labour. The cartoon that Adonis shared is not in any way racist in my opinion.

I’d say there was a concerted effort by those with left-leaning politics to exaggerate the attitudes of those on the right of opinion too, Stroller. Not everybody that doesn’t share the left’s worldview is automatically a nasty, unfeeling racist and sexist nazi. Just me and my mate, Roland.

 

[Stroller]

I’d say there was a concerted effort by those with left-leaning politics to exaggerate the attitudes of those on the right of opinion too, Stroller. Not everybody that doesn’t share the left’s worldview is automatically a nasty, unfeeling racist and sexist nazi. Just me and my mate, Roland.

Perhaps it's in the eye of the beholder, Uber. I think you're a splendid chap, but that Roland is a nasty piece of work.

 

[durbar2003]

I just thought the cartoon was funny.

 

[awjm]

This is stretching things! The "Tory" was a right wing journalist who was investigating and openly reporting on a UCL Lecturer who seems to promulgate some nasty views generally. Young wasn't adopting the lecturer's views, and I don't think Young is a member of the Tory Party anyway, though he was at one time favoured by them on education issues. Actually, I think Toby Young speaks a lot of sense most of the time, but he fell foul of social media after posting some student-humour type stuff that was not politically correct

[url]https://www.theguardian.com/commentisfree/2018/jan/02/toby-young-office-students-cronyism-tories[/URL]

 

[BobbyD]

https://www.theguardian.com/uk-news...rants-wrongly-face-deportation-experts-reveal

So I've just read that.

What is your point (you need to provide something to discuss with)? That people are wrongly being deported.

I think we can all agree that the government has made a mess of this and that whether there is an ulterior motive by the home office or the people working for the home office (for nefarious or lack of knowledge) reasons, the policy has not been implemented well.

This is probably because the home office set actual targets which is never good (even if the public demands this).

I think I have already conceded that point.

Still I would not call the policy inherent racist.

 

[awjm]

So I've just read that.

What is your point (you need to provide something to discuss with)? That people are wrongly being deported.

I think we can all agree that the government has made a mess of this and that whether there is an ulterior motive by the home office or the people working for the home office (for nefarious or lack of knowledge) reasons, the policy has not been implemented well.

This is probably because the home office set actual targets which is never good (even if the public demands this).

I think I have already conceded that point.

Still I would not call the policy inherent racist.

Basically, I was just trying to say that the home office is a mess and it's out in the open at the moment.

But also, I believe the Tories made clear changes in policy to try and steal away the UKIP vote.

At the end of the day the Conservative Party is based on the premise of conserving and preserving the old ways of the establishments of the past. The privileged few over the many, crown over the populace, Corporation of London with its power, etc. The British empire was inherently racist. Beyond racism specifically, the british state and crown has, in the past, been the source of great discrimination in general and profound inequality, even with it's regard for the people of Britain and England.

There's no doubt in my mind that some or many of those older attitudes are still there. I believe the Conservative Party exists to maintain and further a situation where a few control wealth. In modern times it is in deregulating the financial industry and business practices general for the larger corporations so that power is balanced in their favour.

 

[Stroller]

I’d say there was a concerted effort by those with left-leaning politics to exaggerate the attitudes of those on the right of opinion too, Stroller. Not everybody that doesn’t share the left’s worldview is automatically a nasty, unfeeling racist and sexist nazi. Just me and my mate, Roland.

It's this kind of thing that makes me anti-Tory Uber.................

https://write.as/9xj6wngoh5yyi

As far as I can see, Tories are indeed - by and large - nasty and unfeeling.
​

Disclaimer: I don't know who this blogger is, so cannot verify his bona fides. There are, however, numerous similar accounts abounding.

 

[Uber_Hoop]

It's this kind of thing that makes me anti-Tory Uber.................

https://write.as/9xj6wngoh5yyi

As far as I can see, Tories are indeed - by and large - nasty and unfeeling.
​

Disclaimer: I don't know who this blogger is, so cannot verify his bona fides. There are, however, numerous similar accounts abounding.

It is of little surprise that somebody so consumed by issues of such significanc like disability or impending death should have opinions as strong as this. It would not surprise me if the author was already left-leaning as well.

I must admit that I got bored about two-thirds in. Particularly. At. His. Annoying. Habit. Of. One. Word. Sentences. But I also note that halfway down he also says that the left are just as bad.

 

[Stroller]

It is of little surprise that somebody so consumed by issues of such significanc like disability or impending death should have opinions as strong as this. It would not surprise me if the author was already left-leaning as well.

I must admit that I got bored about two-thirds in. Particularly. At. His. Annoying. Habit. Of. One. Word. Sentences. But I also note that halfway down he also says that the left are just as bad.

Well yes, I think it's clear that the author was already left-leaning, but I wonder what a life-long Tory would have to say in similar circumstances.....

'Ah well, this is what I voted for'

 

[Uber_Hoop]

Well yes, I think it's clear that the author was already left-leaning, but I wonder what a life-long Tory would have to say in similar circumstances.....

'Ah well, this is what I voted for'

From a personal perspective I would be more that happy for my taxes to be directed to assisting people in this situation. But it’s a finite pool of taxes, so where to remove resources? Think I’d take away benefits from young mothers (and fathers) that choose to have children whilst fully in the knowledge that they don’t have the means to support a family. Not sure why others should fund that.