Off Topic The Politics Thread

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Should the UK remain a part of the EU or leave?

  • Stay in

    Votes: 56 47.9%

  • Get out

    Votes: 61 52.1%
  • Total voters
    117
  • Poll closed .
Goldhawk-Road said:
If there's Islamaphobia in the Tory Party, it's been kept very quiet - even Diane Abbott hasn't mentioned it. It can't be that bad if they've just made a Muslim Home Secretary. I don't believe Corbyn has any Jewish ministers does he? He sacked Debbie Abrahams
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Surely you should know, Goldie? You seem to know plenty about Labour's anti-Semitism problem.

I have no personal knowledge of Tory Islamophobia, but both Baroness Warsi and the Muslim Council Of Britain seem to think it is an issue. Eighteen Tory councillors or candidates have been suspended for racism in the last 30 days, but all the MSM focus on are Labour's issues. A bit of balance would be nice.
 
Stroller said:
Anyone else voting in the local elections today? I did my bit on the way to work - two votes for random Labour candidates and one for Green. I have no knowledge of any of the individuals on the ballot paper, nor do I have any particular issues with my local council (Hillingdon - Tory), but always make sure to vote at every opportunity.
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No elections here, so I am relieved of the self loathing inspired by voting for someone representing a party I despise (all of them, just about equally).
Stroller said:
Surely you should know, Goldie? You seem to know plenty about Labour's anti-Semitism problem.

I have no personal knowledge of Tory Islamophobia, but both Baroness Warsi and the Muslim Council Of Britain seem to think it is an issue. Eighteen Tory councillors or candidates have been suspended for racism in the last 30 days, but all the MSM focus on are Labour's issues. A bit of balance would be nice.
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what does MSM stand for Strolls? Pretty sure I’m being dense on this....
 
sb_73 said:
No elections here, so I am relieved of the self loathing inspired by voting for someone representing a party I despise (all of them, just about equally).

what does MSM stand for Strolls? Pretty sure I’m being dense on this....
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It's main-stream media, Stan. An acronym I picked up on one of the lefty Facebook groups I belong to.
 
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Stroller said:
Surely you should know, Goldie? You seem to know plenty about Labour's anti-Semitism problem.

I have no personal knowledge of Tory Islamophobia, but both Baroness Warsi and the Muslim Council Of Britain seem to think it is an issue. Eighteen Tory councillors or candidates have been suspended for racism in the last 30 days, but all the MSM focus on are Labour's issues. A bit of balance would be nice.
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Agree about the need for balance. If Labour had sacked 18 for antisemitism, there'd be less of an issue. Corbyn doesn't take any action unless the glare of the MSM is in his face. Who were the 18 Tory candidates, is there an article?
 
I will be voting for my Labour councillor. Decent bloke. Always seen around the area as is the lib dem candidate. The Tory candidate, wouldn't have a clue who it was never mind what they looked like.
 
To save time, and mudslinging, I think it’s safe to assume that all mainstream political parties (and probably all organisations and probably families) have their fair share of racists, inflexible ideologues, sex pests, idiots, cheats, liars, self serving dickheads, low level and big time crooks, and all round ****ers. They are just a slice of humanity after all. Thankfully there are a lot more people, even in politics, who are fundamentally pretty decent. Of course some fringe parties are implicitly and sometimes explicitly racist, but if it’s what they believe, for whatever warped and sick reason, I’d rather they were open about it than stay underground.

It’s how a mainstream institution responds to the inevitable presence of these ****wits that they should be judged on.
 
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GoldhawkRoad said:
Not disparaging, Strolls, just pointing out the flaws in its claim to be objective
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I'm not sure you can necessarily say that they are not objective, Goldie.

https://evolvepolitics.com/about-us/

If, as they claim, they exist to highlight issues that are not covered by mainstream media, and MSM is inherently right-wing, they are going to appear to have a left-wing agenda. As far as I can see, they don't have any connection to Labour or Corbyn, as you insinuate.

Pretty much all media outlets have a political bias (apart from the BBC of course), and any one that provides a counter-balance to the propaganda of the right is welcome in my opinion.
 
Stroller said:
I'm not sure you can necessarily say that they are not objective, Goldie.

https://evolvepolitics.com/about-us/

If, as they claim, they exist to highlight issues that are not covered by mainstream media, and MSM is inherently right-wing, they are going to appear to have a left-wing agenda. As far as I can see, they don't have any connection to Labour or Corbyn, as you insinuate.

Pretty much all media outlets have a political bias (apart from the BBC of course), and any one that provides a counter-balance to the propaganda of the right is welcome in my opinion.
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If you Google it, Strolls, the editor has a Corbynista site, it has been accused of spreading fake news and Wiki describe it as Left Wing
 
I had three votes for three labour and three Conservatives. I put my ballot paper into the box untouched as didn't want to vote for either party.
 
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GoldhawkRoad said:
If you Google it, Strolls, the editor has a Corbynista site, it has been accused of spreading fake news and Wiki describe it as Left Wing
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Is Wiki to be accepted as an arbiter now? No matter, I would describe Evolve as left-wing too, and all the better for it. My point (and theirs, I suppose) is that we mostly only get a right-wing biased view from the MSM. How are we to judge the comparative seriousness of Labour's racism problem versus that of the Tories if we're only told about one and not the other?

As Stan says, organisations should be judged on how they deal with such issues rather than their existence, but if, as you suggest, Corbyn has only dealt with the anti-Semitism issue because of its media exposure, the Tories should face the same scrutiny and be judged on their response.
 
Stroller said:
Is Wiki to be accepted as an arbiter now? No matter, I would describe Evolve as left-wing too, and all the better for it. My point (and theirs, I suppose) is that we mostly only get a right-wing biased view from the MSM. How are we to judge the comparative seriousness of Labour's racism problem versus that of the Tories if we're only told about one and not the other?

As Stan says, organisations should be judged on how they deal with such issues rather than their existence, but if, as you suggest, Corbyn has only dealt with the anti-Semitism issue because of its media exposure, the Tories should face the same scrutiny and be judged on their response.
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But this is my point. The Tories have sacked the racists and made a Muslim Home Secretary. What has Corbyn done to deal with the endemic antisemitism in his party? As to evidence of antisemitism, forget the MSM, and listen to Jewish Labour MP's
 
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GoldhawkRoad said:
But this is my point. The Tories have sacked the racists and made a Muslim Home Secretary. What has Corbyn done to deal with the endemic antisemitism in his party? As to evidence of antisemitism, forget the MSM, and listen to Jewish Labour MP's
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Anti-Semitism is not endemic in the Labour party, Goldie - that is a ridiculous assertion. There are plainly some deeply nasty individuals who should be identified and kicked out of the party, but they are a tiny minority. By the way, the individuals suspended by the Tories were not just party members, but existing councillors and council candidates. As to evidence of Tory Islamophobia, forget Evolve, listen to Baroness Warsi.

The new (Muslim) Home Secretary said that he would 'leave no stone unturned' in pursuit of the truth about the Windrush scandal and then promptly voted to keep all the details of how it happened secret. I wouldn't go so far as to call him a 'coconut', but I would have no faith in him speaking out against Islamophobia in the Tory party.
 
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GoldhawkRoad said:
But this is my point. The Tories have sacked the racists and made a Muslim Home Secretary. What has Corbyn done to deal with the endemic antisemitism in his party? As to evidence of antisemitism, forget the MSM, and listen to Jewish Labour MP's
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Just about Javid, Goldie...

Javid may still be a Muslim. Who knows? He was also a high-flying youngest-ever VP at Chase Manhattan and a board member of Deutsche Bank before he entered politics and was elected. It's not the colour of his skin that counts, or his parents, or his religion. He stopped being the working class, son of a Pakistani immigrant when he went to Uni. It's what he does now and how he votes in Parliament that counts. Based on that, he's just more of the same old same old.

Opportunities for poorer people still only exist for the few and not the many with the potential to shine. He is one of the few. If you really think it's a step forwards by the Conservatives then I think you're mistaken.
 
GoldhawkRoad said:
But this is my point. The Tories have sacked the racists and made a Muslim Home Secretary. What has Corbyn done to deal with the endemic antisemitism in his party? As to evidence of antisemitism, forget the MSM, and listen to Jewish Labour MP's
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Stroller said:
Anti-Semitism is not endemic in the Labour party, Goldie - that is a ridiculous assertion. There are plainly some deeply nasty individuals who should be identified and kicked out of the party, but they are a tiny minority. By the way, the individuals suspended by the Tories were not just party members, but existing councillors and council candidates. As to evidence of Tory Islamophobia, forget Evolve, listen to Baroness Warsi.
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Stroller, just pointing out that you won't take the words of Jewish Labour MPs as evidence of endemic anti-semitism in Labour, but you WILL take the words of Muslim Tory MPs as evidence of endemic Islamophobia in the Tory Party?

That does appear that you're letting your political stance effect your standards of judgement there, mate. Either the words of those directly affected and directly connected to the matter under discussion is evidence that the situation exists, or it isn't. I don't think you can have it both ways...
 
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West London Willy said:
Stroller, just pointing out that you won't take the words of Jewish Labour MPs as evidence of endemic anti-semitism in Labour, but you WILL take the words of Muslim Tory MPs as evidence of endemic Islamophobia in the Tory Party?

That does appear that you're letting your political stance effect your standards of judgement there, mate. Either the words of those directly affected and directly connected to the matter under discussion is evidence that the situation exists, or it isn't. I don't think you can have it both ways...
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Not at all. If you read what I have said, I fully accept that there is an anti-Semitism problem in the Labour party and that it needs to be dealt with. What I objected to was Goldie's use of the word endemic to describe it. I wouldn't say racism in the Tory party was endemic, but I believe it exists, and that it should get the same media scrutiny as has been applied to Labour.
 
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No one interested in the local election results then? I notice Hillingdon elected more Tory councillors than last time Strolls.

No Overall Control seemed to do well, and it’s great that the same team is now leading us at local, national and opposition levels, though the Completely Witless and Totally Ineffective tendency is also on the rise. Exciting times.
 
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