Alfie Evans

[haslam]

It's sad and I would like to think I would do better than to have loads of people rioting and being disrespectful outside the hospital.

On the other hand I don't understand why the hospital and judge can just stop the family doing what they want with the child.

It's not being paid for by the nhs and they aren't asking the government to front up the cash (if they were it'd be different). They just want to fly him over to Italy and he's going to die anyway so let them do what they want

Tel and Tobes are correct in that the hospital owes a duty of care solely to the child and the parents wishes are persuasive rather something they have to follow.

If they try to transport him he's likely to die in transport and even if he doesn't it isn't really in his interests to be moved. Parents don't actually have the right to do what they want with their children

 

[Saf]

This is an absolute disgrace. They've got it wrong, simple as that.

 

[Saf]

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[haslam]

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Pretty sure we're not going to agree on this.

I reckon if you go into any sizeable organisation in the world you'll find people on reception/ security/ cleaning who would tell you how the people running the place are making mistakes all over. Is the security guard privy to special information that other people aren't? No, they're getting their opinions from social media the same as others.

I'll grant it makes a good story if you just look at them as "a member of Alder Hey Staff" rather than considering whether that actually makes any difference. There's a Costa coffee in there too, may as well ask the kids behind the counter their view.

 

[haslam]

I'd add that what does get brushed over a lot in the media is that the entire story can only really be told from one side. The doctors and nurses working on the care of the child are bound by confidentiality and not able to explain any of their side of the story, not only do people seem to ignore that it is actively used by social media to suggest they are hiding something. The only things the hospital have been able to say is in relation to the court case and then statements released in response to the press.


What to my knowledge was never reported in the wide press was that when the Charlie Gard parents were looking for people to take the child out of the hospital (against the advice of the hospital) they were told they would need to arrange alternative medical care. There was then a campaign around London with Charlies Army whereby they found out the addresses of paediatricians (who have to have their contact details registered with the GMC and can be accessed through relatively easy means) and then were ringing them up consistently for days to tell them they had to give up their time to help (even though medically it was seen as being against the childs best interests). It got quite abusive and many gave up social media entirely or have taken to using fake names or - against guidelines - registering alternative contact details with the GMC.

 

[Saf]

Pretty sure we're not going to agree on this.

I reckon if you go into any sizeable organisation in the world you'll find people on reception/ security/ cleaning who would tell you how the people running the place are making mistakes all over. Is the security guard privy to special information that other people aren't? No, they're getting their opinions from social media the same as others.

I'll grant it makes a good story if you just look at them as "a member of Alder Hey Staff" rather than considering whether that actually makes any difference. There's a Costa coffee in there too, may as well ask the kids behind the counter their view.

I'd add that what does get brushed over a lot in the media is that the entire story can only really be told from one side. The doctors and nurses working on the care of the child are bound by confidentiality and not able to explain any of their side of the story, not only do people seem to ignore that it is actively used by social media to suggest they are hiding something. The only things the hospital have been able to say is in relation to the court case and then statements released in response to the press.


What to my knowledge was never reported in the wide press was that when the Charlie Gard parents were looking for people to take the child out of the hospital (against the advice of the hospital) they were told they would need to arrange alternative medical care. There was then a campaign around London with Charlies Army whereby they found out the addresses of paediatricians (who have to have their contact details registered with the GMC and can be accessed through relatively easy means) and then were ringing them up consistently for days to tell them they had to give up their time to help (even though medically it was seen as being against the childs best interests). It got quite abusive and many gave up social media entirely or have taken to using fake names or - against guidelines - registering alternative contact details with the GMC.

[HASHTAG]#Rattled[/HASHTAG]

 

[haslam]

[HASHTAG]#Rattled[/HASHTAG]

Given that my wife is a paediatrician at Alder Hey (not on the ward Alfie is on thankfully), has been in tears of frustration at the harm Alfies army is causing other patients and has had friends and colleagues verbally and physically abused for doing the job they trained for years at to the best of their ability... I think I've been pretty calm and reasonable to be honest mate

 

[haslam]

Like I said, we're probably not going to agree on this but I'm hardly impartial and this what forums are for. I may disagree with what you say on this matter but we still get on.

 

[Tel (they/them)]

This is an absolute disgrace. They've got it wrong, simple as that.

Do you not think his dad should be spending his last hours/days with him and comforting him through his death?

Rattling off to the media as if it's going to stop a degenerative brain disease is bonkers imo, he'll regret it for the rest of his life. The kid categorically cannot be saved.

 

[haslam]

Do you not think his dad should be spending his last hours/days with him and comforting him through his death?

Rattling off to the media as if it's going to stop a degenerative brain disease is bonkers imo, he'll regret it for the rest of his life. The kid categorically cannot be saved.

100% this.

 

[Tel (they/them)]

Alfie Evans died last night, RIP little soldier.

 

[FosseFilberto]

Incredibly sad news ... seen all the arguments but as a father to 3 girls I would walk to the ends of the earth and pursue any course of action, no matter how forlorn ... thoughts with the family now.

 

[Saf]

Incredibly sad news ... seen all the arguments but as a father to 3 girls I would walk to the ends of the earth and pursue any course of action, no matter how forlorn ... thoughts with the family now.

Pretty much where I stand with it. It's easy to keep a calm head now and say just spend your time with the bairn.

I would have rounded 100 lads up and stormed that hospital. My child would have been on that helicopter that was outside waiting.

 

[afcftw]

Pretty much where I stand with it. It's easy to keep a calm head now and say just spend your time with the bairn.

I would have rounded 100 lads up and stormed that hospital. My child would have been on that helicopter that was outside waiting.

Don't give a **** about the other sick kids, parents or staff?

I totally get why they kept fighting for their kid but storming the hospital wasn't going to achieve anything except for causing more harm for everyone involved.

 

[Tel (they/them)]

Nobody should be accused of being out of order in a situation like that, because irrational thoughts take over. The scum outside the hospital should have been mowed down with a steamroller.

 

[PINKIE]

God bless that little soul and his mum and dad. Awful for all of them. No parent should have to go through that.

 

[Saf]

Don't give a **** about the other sick kids, parents or staff?

I totally get why they kept fighting for their kid but storming the hospital wasn't going to achieve anything except for causing more harm for everyone involved.

Correct. If it comes to my child in that awful situation, first and foremost that child is my priority. It's unfortunate that other people might get dragged into it but my bairn would be out of the hospital and onto the helicopter by whatever means necessary

 

[littleDinosaurLuke]

Doctors play God whatever decision they make.
If they prolong life by using technology to keep alive a child who has no prospect of surviving without it (and has no quality of life and may be in pain), they are playing God.
If they withdraw the support because it is artificially sustaining life and allow him to die, they are playing God.
What is the proper and humane thing for them to do?
Parents can only make emotional decisions which might not be the in the best interests of a child who may be suffering.